Dwarf Gourami Deaths (4-month-old, 45-gal tank)

[8_v_s_1]

Hello!

This is my first post. I apologize in advance for the length of it!

Just looking to try to determine what happened...

About 4 months ago (Jan/2015), I set up a tank w/ 3 dwarf gouramis. By mid-May, all 3 had taken ill and died within a week of each other.

Fish may have had slight bulges on the side (subtle), but not significant enough for me to be sure.

SYMPTOMS COMMON TO ALL 3: lethargy / labored attempts to swim

UNIQUE SYMPTOMS-

1st Fish: Increased reclusiveness / laying at tank bottom
2nd Fish: Hovering above bottom, but enough strength for bouyancy
3rd Fish: Constant surface oxygen intake

ADDITIONAL CIRCUMSTANCES-

1. Bacteria Starter Used a Couple Hrs Before Fish Introduced 4 months prior

2. Aqueon Quietflow 30 Filter w/ Reverse Flow UGF/AquaClear Powerhead and lift tube

3. Tetra Whisper Air Pump (for 20-gal) w/ Air Stone

4. Heater NOT WORKING, tank around 74-76 degrees (thought it was a bad thermometer!)

5. Ammonia at 2.00 (but frequent water changes done & detoxifier used every time) / Ph- Greater than 7.60, Nitrite 0.00, Nitrate 100.00 (or thereabouts). Never tested for Ph/Nitrite/Nitrate until this started happening.

6. Custom Rock Decor Made from Aquarium Shelving (Penn Plax "Tank Terraces"), Krylon Fusion, Natural Stone, and Clear Polyurethane spray paint products (as I saw recommended on aquarium forums as being non-toxic)

7. At No Point, Were Any Fish Floating at the Top

Not sure if this was iridovirus, swim bladder disease, or GENERALLY POOR FISH-KEEPING on my part. I tried so hard, and was so attentive to this tank, but maybe my lack of experience in keeping anything but gold fish got the best of me Everything just suddenly went to hell.

If anyone sees any red flags here, feel free to chime in.

Thank you guys so much!!

 

[Stacey W.]

What size tank is it?

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[8_v_s_1]

45 gal. Thanks for asking.

 

[Stacey W.]

First of all gourami's are hit and miss sometimes. Maybe some people have had better luck than me. I had a flame gourami die in 4 months and a blue gourami die in 7 months. But currently have 2 honey gourami and have had them for 2 years in my 55. I believe (anyone chime in if I'm wrong) that bottled bacteria does not work and there were probably so many parameter fluctuations that it may have unfortunately made your fish pass away due to stress.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Jerky]

First of all gourami's are hit and miss sometimes. Maybe some people have had better luck than me. I had a flame gourami die in 4 months and a blue gourami die in 7 months. But currently have 2 honey gourami and have had them for 2 years in my 55. I believe (anyone chime in if I'm wrong) that bottled bacteria does not work and there were probably so many parameter fluctuations that it may have unfortunately made your fish pass away due to stress.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

That combined with the fact that dwarf gourami's are generally a weak species. I tried keeping them but just had constant issues with illness. They are a very attractive looking fish and its so tempting every time I see one.

 

[PassengerTN]

Any discoloration in the gill area? 100ppm nitrate is enough to set in nitrate poisoning if it isn't addressed. A water change should drop those significantly. I'm going to point my finger at water parameters as the underlying cause. 100ppm is way high, most keep theirs under 20ppm.

 

[ThangaMean]

Was your tank cycled? If not I would think your fish died during the cycling process.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[8_v_s_1]

hensleyjk-

There did seem to be very slight lightening of colors in 2 of the fish... But it was pretty subtle, I found myself looking at those 2 over and over again trying to determine if there was color loss or not. As far as the nitrate, I had been doing water changes every 10 days-2 weeks... I wonder if I did the test wrong?

ThangaMean-

I thought it had cycled, the fish seemed to be doing so well, and it had been 4 months, but maybe it didnt?!

Stacey W.-

Thanks for comment, and the info on the bottled bacteria... I will have to retain that info for the future.

Thanks to everyone for their input!

I wonder if the potentially bad water parameters combined with the overall fragile constitution of the dwarf species is what did them in.

 

[ThangaMean]

The reason why I asked is you mentioned that you added bacteria. But there was no info (or I missed) on cycle completion.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Stacey W.]

No problem, live and learn.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[ImACoolguy]

I've kept dwarf gourami under perfect conditions in a large 75g planted tank and still had one mysteriously die on me with no physical signs. Like said above, they are just genetically weak from l the inbreeding and also caused Dwarf Gourami Indovirus, a non curable genetic disease only native to the dwarf species of gourami.


Caleb

 

[biondoa]

Sounds like a double whammy of way too high nitrate and ammonia, combined with the fragile breed of fish. Dwarf Gouramis are very susceptible to dwarf gourami disease, which I believe is the iridovirus that you mentioned. Also, are you testing water with test strips or freshwater liquid test kit? The strips are not really reliable. More frequent water changes will help with just about everything except the iridovirus.

 

[8_v_s_1]

The reason why I asked is you mentioned that you added bacteria. But there was no info (or I missed) on cycle completion.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

Well, to be honest, I'm not sure how to tell when the cycling is complete. From what I gathered, I was just under the impression that it took a couple months or so.

The bacteria that I added was that bacteria starter stuff that supposedly gets the cycling process going with the immediate introduction of beneficial bacteria, to shorten the cycle time. The fish went in a couple hours after I put the bottle in.

Thanks for checking about that.

 

[8_v_s_1]

Sounds like a double whammy of way too high nitrate and ammonia, combined with the fragile breed of fish. Dwarf Gouramis are very susceptible to dwarf gourami disease, which I believe is the iridovirus that you mentioned. Also, are you testing water with test strips or freshwater liquid test kit? The strips are not really reliable. More frequent water changes will help with just about everything except the iridovirus.

I used the API Master Test Kit. Water changes were about every 10-14 days (25 or 30%).

I'll stay away from those strips. Thanks!

 

[8_v_s_1]

I've kept dwarf gourami under perfect conditions in a large 75g planted tank and still had one mysteriously die on me with no physical signs. Like said above, they are just genetically weak from l the inbreeding and also caused Dwarf Gourami Indovirus, a non curable genetic disease only native to the dwarf species of gourami.


Caleb

I've heard that something like 22% of all dwarf gouramis in Asia have the iridovirus... NOT a good percentage! Apparently, breeders over there are injecting the fish with something that keeps the virus symptoms at bay for a couple months, so they look nice and pretty in the store, while the virus incubates; but after the end-purchaser gets them home, and a couple months pass, the meds wear off and the fish become syptomatic, and after that happens, it's not long until the inevitable end.

Despite my slip-ups, I have a bad feeling that that's what my guys had.

 

[Stacey W.]

I guess I just got lucky with my honey gouramis.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[8_v_s_1]

I guess I just got lucky with my honey gouramis.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

Nothing wrong with that

 

[Jerky]

I think it's actually the dwarfs with the major issues. Due to their coloring I think breeding lines were bred very close together.

 

[coralbandit]

I've heard that something like 22% of all dwarf gouramis in Asia have the iridovirus... NOT a good percentage! Apparently, breeders over there are injecting the fish with something that keeps the virus symptoms at bay for a couple months, so they look nice and pretty in the store, while the virus incubates; but after the end-purchaser gets them home, and a couple months pass, the meds wear off and the fish become syptomatic, and after that happens, it's not long until the inevitable end.

So if we are willing to believe this(I think 22% is low or old{2000}).
Then how hard is for everyone to believe the fish farms let very few if any females out?
They know the lifespan of the female gourami is too short to not attempt breeding of every single one.
Most end up with what they think are females ,not knowing how well fish have adapted to "hide "their true sex.
Even shorter fins ,along with serious lack of coloring can easily be pulled off by dominated,weaker small males.
Is this a time to talk about the effects of Growth Inhibbiting Hormones(GIH)?
I have seen less female dwarf gouramis(fish I felt 100% about about) then I count on both hands in the last 20 years.
They(the males) kill each other ,slowly over time as there is no hiding forever.
Eventually the lesser male will not lay eggs and the dominant male kill it same as a un cooperative female.
I would never recommend more then 1 dwarf for any tank.
As for the virus ,angeles and German Blue Rams also have been over bred to the point of their own indiovirus.

 

[8_v_s_1]

So if we are willing to believe this(I think 22% is low or old{2000}).
Then how hard is for everyone to believe the fish farms let very few if any females out?
They know the lifespan of the female gourami is too short to not attempt breeding of every single one.
Most end up with what they think are females ,not knowing how well fish have adapted to "hide "their true sex.
Even shorter fins ,along with serious lack of coloring can easily be pulled off by dominated,weaker small males.
Is this a time to talk about the effects of Growth Inhibbiting Hormones(GIH)?
I have seen less female dwarf gouramis(fish I felt 100% about about) then I count on both hands in the last 20 years.
They(the males) kill each other ,slowly over time as there is no hiding forever.
Eventually the lesser male will not lay eggs and the dominant male kill it same as a un cooperative female.
I would never recommend more then 1 dwarf for any tank.
As for the virus ,angeles and German Blue Rams also have been over bred to the point of their own indiovirus.

Wow. That is scary to hear. Really interesting info though. Thanks for posting that. I understand that there's a market for these beautiful fish, but it's a bit sickening to consider that they are being "created" only to oftentimes suffer.