Euthanizing beloved fish?

[squirrilah fish]

She is a nice looking fish for sure. You should do 50% daily water changes. 10% is hardly enough to help and clean water always was and always is the best medicine. As for liquid vitamins. It does say to add to water, but don't. Soak food such as freeze dried krill with it then feed. And for the love of god DONT USE FREEZING for euthanizing if you need to do it. It's outdated and not humane. Use clove oil. 3 drops per gallon, mix in bucket with tank water then add fish. They simply pass out. Then add an alka seltzer tab to remove oxygen from the water. The fish will not know a thing. Or keep adding a few drops of clove oil every 5mins after the fish is unconscious. Wait for a half hour or so after breathing has stopped and you can at that point consider her gone.


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Where it's a brand new tank, the water is clean, I got the bacteria In a bottle from fluval to skip cycling, so far, 10% has been working out (actually it's more than 10% a 5 gallon bucket everyday). I haven't even detected any Nitrates, nitrites, ammonia etc. it's been perfect, I figure if it's not broke don't fix it. I might look into vitamins, but part of the deal is I'm not allowed to spend anymore money trying to save her.

Believe me I'm checking EVERYTHING compulsively.

Right now Euthanizing is far from my mind, I have high hope this is going to work out.

 

[Jmunroe]

You have a 10 inch fish in a too small uncycled tank.... Do at least 50% a day. Bacteria in a bottle is short term at best as it's not quite the same bacteria. I wouldn't have moved her.. I would of just started doing larger and more frequent water changes. Dont use carbon in the filters.. it's a waste of good bio media space and some believe it leads to such issues as your seeing. Check your API kit. If it's expired or close it maybe time for a new one as you would need close to 50% almost daily on a uncycled/cycled 30 gallon with a 10 inch fish. I have an 11 inch oscar in a 125 gallon with some low bioload silver dollars and my tank needs 3 50-75% water changes a week to keep nitrates below 20ppm.
Your gonna be fighting ammonia and nitrites as well. At least take the sponge outta your other tank and squeeze some of the mulm into your new tank. Or even better.. Take some bio media out of your established tank and put some in the new tanks filter.


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[squirrilah fish]

I did do that with the media, I'm going to change more water I think, but good news, when I got home from work just now, wounds are healing, colors back, today I can definitely see improvement in her condition. I am still checking the water quality religiously so to speak.

 

[Jmunroe]

That's great to hear


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[VioletGoby]

"She is a nice looking fish for sure. You should do 50% daily water changes. 10% is hardly enough to help and clean water always was and always is the best medicine. As for liquid vitamins. It does say to add to water, but don't. Soak food such as freeze dried krill with it then feed. And for the love of god DONT USE FREEZING for euthanizing if you need to do it. It's outdated and not humane. Use clove oil. 3 drops per gallon, mix in bucket with tank water then add fish. They simply pass out. Then add an alka seltzer tab to remove oxygen from the water. The fish will not know a thing. Or keep adding a few drops of clove oil every 5mins after the fish is unconscious. Wait for a half hour or so after breathing has stopped and you can at that point consider her gone."

Wow....that is depressing...

 

[hotsoup32]

Hey Squirrilah. Hope she is getting better. I can only hope my JD makes it anywhere near that age. Awesome job.

 

[Andy Sager]

I'm glad to hear she's getting better. I know it goes against what everybody is saying here but obviously doing the 10% change daily is working so I wouldn't change anything from what you have been doing . IT'S WORKING so don't mess with it. Despite popular belief on this site, sick or injured fish need consistency as well as good water. Massive water changes will not do a sick fish good. It may only stress it out even more.
The proof is in the pudding. You moved the fish, the fish is getting better so you are doing the right thing. Congrats! Just keep your eyes on the water quality and adjust accordingly and if necessary.

 

[squirrilah fish]

I'm glad to hear she's getting better. I know it goes against what everybody is saying here but obviously doing the 10% change daily is working so I wouldn't change anything from what you have been doing . IT'S WORKING so don't mess with it. Despite popular belief on this site, sick or injured fish need consistency as well as good water. Massive water changes will not do a sick fish good. It may only stress it out even more.
The proof is in the pudding. You moved the fish, the fish is getting better so you are doing the right thing. Congrats! Just keep your eyes on the water quality and adjust accordingly and if necessary.

My thinking exactly, my goal with any aquarium is to minimize the changes to their environment. I run the API super clean 50 filter (for a fifty gallon) I've been sticking with the 5 gallon bucket a day, checked water this morning Nitrates were in between 0-10ppm, (probably like. 8ppm) everything else is fine. She's definitely getting better. I'm wondering if I should add Melafix to the mix to heal the wounds faster. All I have been treating her with this last week is seachems Paraguard. Seems like she's out of the woods though.

 

[VioletGoby]

I like Melafix. It smells good too! in a weird way. It includes tea tree oil (melaleuca) which even humans can use as an anti-bacterial, healing oil.

 

[Andy Sager]

My thinking exactly, my goal with any aquarium is to minimize the changes to their environment. I run the API super clean 50 filter (for a fifty gallon) I've been sticking with the 5 gallon bucket a day, checked water this morning Nitrates were in between 0-10ppm, (probably like. 8ppm) everything else is fine. She's definitely getting better. I'm wondering if I should add Melafix to the mix to heal the wounds faster. All I have been treating her with this last week is seachems Paraguard. Seems like she's out of the woods though.

My thoughts are: Good water, less stress and a good diet will heal the fish as good as a medication will. I would keep with your program unless there is a turn for the worse. The fish is obviously responding to what you are doing so changing it is not really necessary. (IMO)

Side note: to have that much nitrate after a daily water change is a little alarming. That is a sign that she is producing a rather large amount of ammonia daily so you may also want to keep close tabs on that and nitrites and if necessary, use Seachem's PRIME to make sure these are detoxified should you be getting any readings. Sounds like you may need to think about a larger tank for her once she's healed since putting her back into the tank she came from with the other fish still there will only recreate this situation.

 

[squirrilah fish]

I use prime, I want to point out that 8ppm is about the lowest nitrate level detectable, and that was going about 30 hours without a WC, the plan is to put her back in the 90g but I think it's a few weeks away from that. Obviously the tank is too small for her, but it seemed like the best option available to me to focus on her needs.

 

[Andy Sager]

Are you going remove the other fish from the old tank? If not, I think it's a mistake to put her back in there under the same conditions she needed to be removed from. Due to the fact that she will now be viewed as an intruder to the existing fish ( they seem to have very short memories when it comes to former tank mates) and not a returning celebrity, she will be in even more danger of being attacked and harassed. At her advanced age, are you sure this is something you want to put her through? You may need to create a divider for the big tank so that she can be kept in the tank but not at the mercy of the other fish in the tank. A rock wall or eggcrate come to mind here.
Just some thoughts you need to consider.

 

[squirrilah fish]

All that's left in the tank are fry, and she has her own cave that she backs into with her now. Other fish harassing her has not been a problem. I just sensed all the activity while she was sick was stressing her out. Like I said I've had her for 12 years and this is the first problem I have had with her. I'm definitely going to keep on eye on it. And that is weeks away anyway. I'm going to get her completely better, and then some before I think about moving her back. Could be she just stays there the rest of her life, I haven't decided.

 

[squirrilah fish]

Well this morning I feel like a jackass. Nitrite, nitrite, nitrite, I did a 50% WC, last night, to combat a nitrite spike. And this morning; nitrite spike again. Dumped in 2 capfuls of prime, going to do a water change, and not going to add any food. Apparently the Fluval "add fish instantly" BS only covers ammonia, but now my Nitrites are freaking out. Anything else I can do besides do a water change ever 12 hours, overdose him on prime, and stop adding food.
This sucks, this truly effing sucks. I feel dumb.

 

[Andy Sager]

Well this morning I feel like a jackass. Nitrite, nitrite, nitrite, I did a 50% WC, last night, to combat a nitrite spike. And this morning; nitrite spike again. Dumped in 2 capfuls of prime, going to do a water change, and not going to add any food. Apparently the Fluval "add fish instantly" BS only covers ammonia, but now my Nitrites are freaking out. Anything else I can do besides do a water change ever 12 hours, overdose him on prime, and stop adding food.
This sucks, this truly effing sucks. I feel dumb.

According to the seachem website, you can dose prime to 5 times the regular dosage to detoxify the nitrites while the biological catches up. As long as it's not in toxic form the nitrites won't kill the fish. I also suggest doing 2- 20% / 25% water changes per day instead of 1-50% per day. Less stress on the fish while getting the same result.
The bottom line is getting a biological filter established in that tank. She is producing ammonia by breathing, eating and defecating. Attacking this is the root of the cure. Adding an ammonia absorbing material to your filter as well as doing the water changes should help keep things stable.

 

[squirrilah fish]

Ya, I understand how the bio filter works. This new tank did not have an ammonia faze, and when I saw nitrate (the safe form) yesterday I figured it was good. But last night and this morning there was nitrite (the toxic form) and again this morning. I did a 50% change to bring it down. And added about 3x the normal amount of prime. The Fluval biological enhancer said it removes nitrite as well so I did a dose of that, and I took my sponge filter out if my 90 and squeezed all that bio into the tank, so the water is good and dirty, the fish seems fine again. (You can see it in the gills with nitrite, they look hard/swollen) I expect nitrite to be a problem the rest of the week, it was stupid of me to think I could totally skip new tank syndrome all together, even though I did skip the ammonia phase.

 

[squirrilah fish]

I am assuming since the sores are working it's way back to the skin surface and are no longer holes this is a good sign? Anyone dealt with hole in the head? Or injuries? I'm hoping this what healing looks like. She's definitely acting better, eating, swimming, getting excited. I got the nitrites under control, god bless Seachem Stability. Anyway, update, comment, more advice? Thanks for barring this stressful time with me.

 

[Andy Sager]

Yes, with this kind of condition, the deepest tissue heals first and then on up to the skin surface. The last thing you should see heal over is the actual skin. Once healed, it may take a little bit for the coloration to come back but it should with time.
Sounds like she's on her way to a full recovery. Fingers crossed for that outcome

 

[squirrilah fish]

When the nitrites were going off I thought I was going to lose her. Stability and Prime, must haves for every aquarists.

 

[squirrilah fish]

She's all better now, I'm going to be rehoming her to a buddy, he just got a new 125 gallon and wants to do SA's.