Failure :(

[PB_Smith]

Took another peak at the OP, and this caught my eye;

Some background information:
48 gallon
Canister Eheim Ecco 60
Fluval C3
Blackwater
Tons of driftwood
CO2 injection
Tons of plants and java moss
6 neons
2 blue rams
PH 6.2

I tried to mimic the biotope where bettas live in the wild.

They come from opposite sides of the planet and aside from similar ph (maybe depending on rainfall) they certainly do not come from a biotope that contains blackwater and South American fish.
Bettas come from puddles and rice fields with depths of anywhere from1"-2'-3' that are pretty stagnant with ph and other parameters fluctuating based on rainfall. That is why they can be kept in a jar.
Neons and rams come from relatively swift streams, rivers and tributaries that are highly oxygenated with stable ph and other parameters.

not sure what research you did that suggested you recreated a biotope suitable for both.

 

[LCieParagon]

My tank has both swift flowing water and stagnant water. I have driftwood positioned so that my powerhead blocks the flow on the right side of my aquarium. I'll take wrongful assumptions for $1000 please.


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[Brookster123]

Less candor more Pictures!!

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[emerald76]

I agree with brookster


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[PB_Smith]

My tank has both swift flowing water and stagnant water. I have driftwood positioned so that my powerhead blocks the flow on the right side of my aquarium. I'll take wrongful assumptions for $1000 please.


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I'm not making any assumptions whatsoever, those fish come from very different biotopes regardless of how you set-up your tank.

 

[Delapool]

I would say the experiment is only wrong if there is no backup plan and the experience level needed to recognise it.

Fish get along? Grand and pass the popcorn .

Not getting along and need to be separated??

I always think it's grand that people will share experiences here (the good, bad and ugly); because somewhere in that experience will be an experiment that can be learned from.

 

[Andy Sager]

Valid points Andy, I may have been quick to judge although I do not feel this was the appropriate way to go about it. People like you (experienced, expert) and like the OP claims to be. It would seem a person with that much expertise would not have to come on a site like this telling about his failure. To each their own I I suppose.
I come hear and read many threads in hopes to learn this one happened to annoy me.. I did not learn anything about fish, but was well educated on the human species. ?


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Or they came here to say " See this, it's not normal, so unless you are willing to do what I've done and have the failures I've had, don;t try this at home." Just a different angle on it.
When I first came to this site, it was because the name was 'Aquarium Advice" and I thought this was a perfect outlet for me to share my knowledge and experience to help and advise others. That, it turned out, was harder to do than I thought because anybody with a keyboard was on here typing away. But just like there were bad pet shops when I was in them, you have to weed out the fakes and support the ones that DO know what they are talking about. This is why I say, If you are a newbie or unsure of what to do, before blindly following any advice, find out what makes the adviser qualified to give the advice they are giving.

Hope this helps

 

[Mebbid]

My tank has both swift flowing water and stagnant water. I have driftwood positioned so that my powerhead blocks the flow on the right side of my aquarium. I'll take wrongful assumptions for $1000 please.


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Pics or it didn't happen


A video of them eating peacefully together would really shut us all up

 

[Brookster123]

Pics or it didn't happen

Echo echo... and just in case your quota has been met?? Upload a YouTube video with specific commentary and say brookster is the man

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[Andy Sager]

Andy, I understand your points. However, today's aquarium trade is not geared towards people like us here at AA, it's pointed to those who want Dory and Nemo. I think that to ensure fish safety, we need to overestimate requirements for fish so that people who take a Betta home will hopefully choose a larger tank where mistakes common to all beginners won't show as much. For people with an understanding, which I feel most here at AA qualify as, keeping a Betta in a bowl is completely appropriate because we know the science. We know that three or four pellets, not 10, is plenty. We know water changes are required in any aquarium. We know, in short, how to properly care for fish. Many of us have aquariums with stocks that would give AqAdvisor a heart attack. But we can manage those stocks, we can recognize issues that many people that use that site cannot. And sure, hopefully one day we can have people who really care, before the trade dissolves altogether. But for now, I feel safer advocating for goldfish in ponds and Bettas in five gallons of filtered water than I do telling people a bowl is perfectly fine, which it is, because many of those people will not grasp cycling and water changes ever, if at all. Even shops are pandering to these people. So yes, the brochures provided at my local big box store saying a Betta needs a minimum of a quart is correct. But what is not correct is the assessment that a 10% weekly change for the first month and a 25% monthly change after that is acceptable. It's not correct for people who have no experience and just want a fishy for little Bobby or Emma. We need to differentiate in this trade between people like us, who tell the employees how to care for fish, and little Bobby that wants a goldfish, whose parents have no interest. Experimentation, sure. It's how you learn. It's perfectly fine. Every time a new medicine is tested on people, isn't that exactly what we are doing? I've no qualms with experimentation, but I think it needs to be carried out by someone who at least does a weekly water change. So, sure, stock your ten gallon with some angels, as I know Andy does/did with his breeding pairs, but watch them. Keep them healthy. Intervene when necessary. That's exactly what the OP is doing here.
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Yes, it's a shame that Nemo and Dory have influenced this hobby but once again, this was a hobby and as a hobby, was subject to the desires of the public. If you want to blame someone/something for the state of the hobby, then start with the video game PONG. No longer were kids, the original hobbyists, taking their few pennies to the pet store. They were taking then to the arcade to play video games. That forced a shift of monumental porportions in the hobby. That's a whole other story. But I digress......

I'm not arguing with your post, I just have a little different take on it from experience. I don;t think stopping someone from getting their child a pet fish, no matter the type, solves anything. ( Did you know what you know now when you first started keeping fish? I know I didn;t and I had an expert helping me.) In fact, it's a good reason why the fish business will go under. I think, if we want to have a more educated aquarist in the hobby, we need to be the voice that person needs to hear. Be the person who teaches the right way of fish keeping as well as the wrong way. Be the person they buy their equipment from. Be the person they get their fish from. Be the person to say " NO, that won;t work" and not make it all about the money. The problem is, not many people want to be that person anymore. This is why the box stores were able to come in and take over. So if you support them, the situation will never change. Mom & Pop shops made this hobby worth doing. I'm afraid once they are all gone, the hobby will be too. Why? Because they tended to care more about their customers than their customer's wallets. In fact, I used to run classes on fish keeping at some stores after hours. On my own time. JUST so the right info was getting out there. Not everyone wants to take the time or has the time to learn about their pet online. That's why it needs to be face to face. Just like you can't really teach obedience training for dogs online, you shouldn't teach fish keeping online either.

That's my take.

 

[emerald76]

I'm not advocating stopping kids from getting fish tanks, simply encouraging them to go bigger rather than smallef


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[dcutl002]

Well, please separate them. Because just like in the movie "Highlander", when it comes to male Bettas THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!

 

[Andy Sager]

I'm not advocating stopping kids from getting fish tanks, simply encouraging them to go bigger rather than smallef


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But that's just my point. Bigger might be too expensive at that time and not in the budget. Smaller might be a start to a bigger future. People just need to know how to do a small tank properly.
I am the best example of this. I started with a 7 1/2 gal tank and a male Guppy. Look where that led to......

 

[Delapool]

I'm not advocating stopping kids from getting fish tanks, simply encouraging them to go bigger rather than smallef


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If only fish tanks were like the TARDIS...

Picked one size bigger than you will ever need? 6 months later cursing your small tank???

No worries, just expand the tank through a pocket dimension. Actually that would be handy for storing aquarium gear as well....

 

[Mebbid]

If only fish tanks were like the TARDIS...

Picked one size bigger than you will ever need? 6 months later cursing your small tank???

No worries, just expand the tank through a pocket dimension. Actually that would be handy for storing aquarium gear as well....

Isn't that just a sump?

 

[Delapool]

Isn't that just a sump?

Savvy Underflow Micro-Pond???

Edit - apart from the light relief, also keen on any pics.

 

[amyb_70]

fighting and placing bets on Bettas is a very, very old "sport" and was the genesis of keeping/breeding them.
Without the sport of fighting them, there would not be as many varieties as there are now as many strains were bred over the centuries.



I am curious that you can launch a rant at another person, anytime I have done that it has resulted in my being warned, getting "infractions" and posts or entire threads being deleted.

must be a gender thing...

PB_Smith my intention was not to rant, put down or whatever people want to call it. I commented on what I read and as I said the way I perceived it.
Using the fish for fighting one way is what they say the dis a breed for. I personally don't agree but that's me. This person didn't buy them to fight in a tournament, the OP bought them to see if he could successfully have multiply males cohabitate. IMO that didn't work, as you see when people started to question the OPs honesty on their last statements as to how how this was working out, they still have not come forth to provide any factual info about any of what they said.
As for a gender thing, idk, maybe a mod hasn't seen my post yet - you can msg them and ask, or maybe they read the entire thread and said oh this person does have valid points. I think it safe to assume your male, I highly doubt it's because I'm female. They will either delete or warn me if they deem necessary. Believe me this girl has never gotten special treatment and don't think it will begin here and now. ?.



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[amyb_70]

Emerald, please clear some of your inbox, I tried to msg you but says your full. Thanks.


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[emerald76]

Done


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[amyb_70]

Or they came here to say " See this, it's not normal, so unless you are willing to do what I've done and have the failures I've had, don;t try this at home." Just a different angle on it.

When I first came to this site, it was because the name was 'Aquarium Advice" and I thought this was a perfect outlet for me to share my knowledge and experience to help and advise others. That, it turned out, was harder to do than I thought because anybody with a keyboard was on here typing away. But just like there were bad pet shops when I was in them, you have to weed out the fakes and support the ones that DO know what they are talking about. This is why I say, If you are a newbie or unsure of what to do, before blindly following any advice, find out what makes the adviser qualified to give the advice they are giving.



Hope this helps

Andy, I came to this site to find people like you! People who were willing to help me succeed at what I'm doing. Although not a business I want to learn as much as I can.
I suppose my mouth or comments seem to make some think otherwise. This is not the case, I do have issues with people who seem to want help yet know it all, as I said I do not believe much of what the OP has said. I do lack knowledge and experience but not common sense, when they added putting angels to this I was wowed. I will but out now.


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