fiddler crab vs shrimp

[kaiofcanada]

I wonder, were you giving them land access? The first time I ever had fiddlers, I knew next to nothing about them and wasn't giving them access to land. Of course they were just miserable..desperately needing to air out, and would often escape. Once I provided them a proper tank with land access and brackish water, I have never even had one try since. Of course some are probably just escape artists no matter what you do but just wanted to make sure

Hi Erin
I did have a nice piece of floating driftwood just for him. He liked it but preferred exploring the HOB outlet and my apartment instead. It was a brackish tank, so I think if I got a crab again I would make them their own little condo rather than keeping them in a tank with less terrestrial options. They are very amusing little guys. Despite the shinanigans, I really enjoyed them.

 

[adeebm]

Ghost shrimp are actually brackish water critters that are sold as freshwater. They are found along the Gulf Coast in brackish marshes, rivers and brackish-water bays. They can adapt to FW, but they don't thrive there. That is one reason that they don't usually live long in FW, at least not IME. The same as crabs that are sold as "freshwater".

Remember that most critters will breed only under optimal conditions. They may lay their eggs elsewhere, but only reach breeding condition in a favorable environment.

Therefore, unless your crab makes a tasty treat of them, they should both be fine in a BW environment.

BTW, except for Thai Mini Crabs, and maybe 1 or 2 others, all other crabs are BW or SW critters. They may live for a time in FW, but will remain stressed while they are, are more susceptible to disease and they won't live for very long.

Actually, that's not necessarily true. It really depends on what species you are talking about. Paleomonetes paludosus, the most common species sold in American pet shops, is a North American species that lives in freshwater, in lakes and streams. Many people have had success keeping them in BW, but they are naturally an FW species. There are BW species of ghost shrimp as well, but they are less commonly sold.

AS for fiddler crabs, it again depends on the species. Most fiddlers sold in America are wild collected from mangrove swamps in Florida. Uca minax seems to be the most common species from what I've observed, but other Florida species do appear as well. While those species are found in varying salinities, but most of them are in some range of the brackish spectrum. I keep mine at a specific gravity of 1.008-1.010, but 1.005-1.015 ought to be a good range. Yes, some Florida species are occasionally found in FW, but unless you can identify your species and know that it is naturally found in FW, brackish water is what you should keep them in. If you have a non-US species, then you might want to ID, because internationally, fiddlers range from pure FW to full SW.

--Adeeb

 

[Shadowraven]

Actually, that's not necessarily true. It really depends on what species you are talking about. Paleomonetes paludosus, the most common species sold in American pet shops, is a North American species that lives in freshwater, in lakes and streams. Many people have had success keeping them in BW, but they are naturally an FW species. There are BW species of ghost shrimp as well, but they are less commonly sold.
--Adeeb

It appears that we are both right and wrong to some degree. I finally found a DOI report on these critters that does a much better job explaining their needs than we have. The link follows:
http://www.nwrc.usgs.gov/wdb/pub/species_profiles/82_11-035.pdf

It appears that they don't do well in aquaria because many of them are wild caught as feeders. These critters may come with other diseases and pests. They are not adapted to tank life and so many will die quickly. The best sources of these shrimp are reputable breeders if you can find them. They can be difficult to breed, but sell cheap, that is why many are wild-caught instead of being bred for the trade.

 

[siva]

Well if there's one thing I've learned is much of the information I've read on all things fish, both my tank and inhabitants seem to contradict. The thing I found was that fish adapt and yes they do thrive if healthy. Contrary to popular belief, there are many contradictions in fish data, I let experience be my guide.

It's never so black and white, it depends on the fish and the environment. You can't tell me my crab won't do well when he in fact is very well adjusted. Instead, you should just be happy for me and say good job mr crabs.

I have several fish that contract the warnings and I know others who have the same experience. It's all relative to your unique experience with the fish you have.

I appreciate the warnings but they have no validity, not with my crab or my tank but thanks anyway.

Fiddler crabs purchased in US pet stores are a brackish species. Case closed. You can say there is "no validity" all you want, it won't change the facts.

No one is going to be happy for mr crabs, a brackish animal slowly dying in a freshwater tank.

I'm sorry, but my goodness, this has gotten ridiculous. If you want to keep your BW critters in a FW tank that's your right, but why go on and on insisting facts are not facts?!

You already made it clear to from your statements that you do not have long term success keeping a fiddler in FW, but you expect to have long term success. Why not be more open minded? Are you never mistaken? You think a group of folks such as us, many who have kept fiddlers for years in all types of scenarios and have loads more experience with them than you, are just completely off our rockers huh? Please do some research and gain some experience with these crabs before you go around giving more people terrible advice on them.

 

[siva]

Actually, that's not necessarily true. It really depends on what species you are talking about. Paleomonetes paludosus, the most common species sold in American pet shops, is a North American species that lives in freshwater, in lakes and streams. Many people have had success keeping them in BW, but they are naturally an FW species. There are BW species of ghost shrimp as well, but they are less commonly sold.

AS for fiddler crabs, it again depends on the species. Most fiddlers sold in America are wild collected from mangrove swamps in Florida. Uca minax seems to be the most common species from what I've observed, but other Florida species do appear as well. While those species are found in varying salinities, but most of them are in some range of the brackish spectrum. I keep mine at a specific gravity of 1.008-1.010, but 1.005-1.015 ought to be a good range. Yes, some Florida species are occasionally found in FW, but unless you can identify your species and know that it is naturally found in FW, brackish water is what you should keep them in. If you have a non-US species, then you might want to ID, because internationally, fiddlers range from pure FW to full SW.

--Adeeb

I agree about the shrimp..I have seen ghost shrimp in bodies of FW.

Uca Pugnax I see for sale all the time too. That's what my fiddlers are and I keep them at 1.008.

 

[jetajockey]

I regularly catch ghost shrimp while sampling in creeks and swamps several miles upstream of estuaries, so I agree that there are some full fw ghost shrimp out there. I'm going to keep collecting them and let a colony build in a tub outside, we'll see how that goes.

 

[adeebm]

Haha I have two LFS nearby that sell fiddlers. One sells minax and one sells this weird species that I've had trouble IDing. But yeah, minax, pugnax, and pugilator seem to be the most common. There are apparently 10+ species found in the Florida area though. I need to take a vacation down there and go study them

--Adeeb

 

[siva]

Haha I have two LFS nearby that sell fiddlers. One sells minax and one sells this weird species that I've had trouble IDing. But yeah, minax, pugnax, and pugilator seem to be the most common. There are apparently 10+ species found in the Florida area though. I need to take a vacation down there and go study them

--Adeeb

Ok that would be seriously awesome! I hope you can sometime

 

[jetajockey]

Haha I have two LFS nearby that sell fiddlers. One sells minax and one sells this weird species that I've had trouble IDing. But yeah, minax, pugnax, and pugilator seem to be the most common. There are apparently 10+ species found in the Florida area though. I need to take a vacation down there and go study them

--Adeeb

I've found fiddlers here in the panhandle in several places, primarily at boat launch areas in the bayou/estuary. I have also found them a little further up river at a boat launch, but I've no idea if its a different species. Next time I'm there I'll capture a few and snap some pics, I always bring a camera when sampling anyway.

 

[skiweeangel]

I really did not expect to spark such debate! Thank you for this wealth of information. I love this site for the openness and passion everyone has. Thank you to everyone for your research, opinions, and experience.

I was toying with the idea of turning my son's tank into a BW and doing some landscaping, if I were to get a few crabs, but my son got very upset when I talked about changing his tank around. I would love to find a true aquatic FW crab because I do love them. I will look into the one that was mentioned several times.

For now I will go with shrimp. I plan on adding some more fish to my son's tank first then the shrimp in a while.

Now another question, what shrimp to go for!

Thank you all so much!

 

[adeebm]

Ghost shrimp, amanos, and red cherry shrimp are the easiest to care for IMO. The nice thing about RCS is that they will breed readily without much special care. So that might be a fun thing to try out.

--Adeeb

 

[Shadowraven]

Ghost shrimp, amanos, and red cherry shrimp are the easiest to care for IMO. The nice thing about RCS is that they will breed readily without much special care. So that might be a fun thing to try out.

--Adeeb

I agree with the Adeeb, with a few caveats.

Ghost Shrimp are pretty easy and cheap, but IME they don't often live for very long. They are difficult to breed in tank conditions, and since they are cheap, most breeders don't find it worth their time to breed them. As a consequence of this, the ones you find in your LFS are often wild caught specimens that don't adapt well to tank life. It depends on where your LFS was supplied from. Ghost Shrimp are very good scavengers and do an excellent job in helping my Corydoras keep the tank clean. That is, when I can keep them alive. I'm going to have to find a better source for them then I currently have.

Amano Shrimp are great, but since they can also be difficult to breed, most of them are wild caught. From my understanding, they have been bred in captivity, but it is a very rare occurence. Amanos require brackish water and have need have very special needs if they are to breed successfully. Their young are very delicate and have very particular requirements if they are to thrive and grow. Sometimes these wild caught specimens don't always adjust well to aquarium life and die quickly. Once again it depends on where your LFS sourced them from. There are also some folks that believe that they only eat algae and don't feed them. While it is true that they are very good algae eaters, you shouldn't expect them to eat that exclusively. They must be fed some sinking food as well.

Red Cherry Shrimp on the other hand breed so readily, it's hard NOT to have babies with them. They are very hardy and can adapt to a wide variety of water conditions. That is why they are often called the beginners shrimp. They make very good scavengers as well. The only thing to worry about with them is that, due to their size, many larger fish (and some smaller) find them to be a tasty treat. It depends on the fish. Most of the time though, RCS should be fine for most community tanks.

 

[skiweeangel]

i think i might go with RCS for their color and see how the fair with some head and taillights and gold zebra danios.

 

[Shadowraven]

i think i might go with RCS for their color and see how the fair with some head and taillights and gold zebra danios.

They will do fine with those fish. Those fish shouldn't bother them at all. The worst that will happen is that the Danios may be curious about them at first. Danios have to check out EVERYTHING new in the tank. They are VERY curious fish.

 

[siva]

I really did not expect to spark such debate! Thank you for this wealth of information. I love this site for the openness and passion everyone has. Thank you to everyone for your research, opinions, and experience.

I was toying with the idea of turning my son's tank into a BW and doing some landscaping, if I were to get a few crabs, but my son got very upset when I talked about changing his tank around. I would love to find a true aquatic FW crab because I do love them. I will look into the one that was mentioned several times.

For now I will go with shrimp. I plan on adding some more fish to my son's tank first then the shrimp in a while.

Now another question, what shrimp to go for!

Thank you all so much!

Thai micro crabs are hard to find. I ordered a dozen from franksaquarium.com. Franks is the only place I've found shipping them that is based in the US. They are out of stock at the moment. I also can't highly recommend them since most of mine have died.

Also, I'm not positive what size tank this is, but head and taillights need atleast a 20 gal and danios should be in a 20 long or 29 gal IMO. They are incredibly active schoolers and pretty large at full size so they need some good length in their tank.

 

[skiweeangel]

it's a 55gal tank. so right now i think they are fine. they are the only thing in the tank! it's been up since march, but when i had a death in the family i didn't give my husband the right instructions on how to care for them. i came back to find their gills bright red and everything all screwy in the tank. not his fault. but now the tank looks good again. i am worried about throwing it all out of wack again, but we shall see. i don't think it's the right season for head and tail lights, but i would like to move the Old Man (an old head and tail light that is just too stubborn to die) into the 55gal with some mates. He is the only surviver from a previous husband watching the tanks time, but no one has any.

 

[roundar]

I just wanted to share my fiddler tank.

 

[jetajockey]

I just wanted to share my fiddler tank.

way overstocked... -1

 

[alLexX]

I just wanted to share my fiddler tank.

that is awesome,do they ever have fights over territory?

 

[skiweeangel]

haha! i love it!