Fin Rot/ICH emergency? help!

[merlebaderle]

hi, i have tried to ask on other forums and never received the answers i was looking for.

this is pretty urgent, at least in my opinion.

i lost my beloved betta about half a week ago. he was a male, kept in a 29g tank.
kept with 8 tetras (never nipped him ever)
4 emerald corey cats
4 apple snails
i introduced danios quickly (yeah yeah i know i should've QT'd them for at least a couple weeks before introducing them, but I'm new at this and the pet shops advice apparently was WAY wrong) i feel they stressed him out with all the activity but he was very very active still, swimming all around, curious, always coming to me when he saw me.

Then his tail fin started diminishing. it wasn't bad. i watched and watched and finally saw a dan nip him. i immediately removed them and had to return them. the pet shop gave me Bettafix, i never used it. i QTd him in a gallon bowl (i read on the internet to do this; lots of different information on all of this). i put in a tsp of aquarium salt, it was heated and clean. btw my 29g tank spiked a tiny bit after i added the danios but i did enough water changes to fix that, then perimeters were perfect again. my little guy died the next day. still don't fully know what exactly why he suddenly died, his tail was only missing in parts, never to his body. his eyes swelled up and then i lost him.

okay, so… that said, i have a 10g tank, with a sorority of 4 female bettas, 2 guppies. it is a planted tank. but only anachatis. it keeps spiking in ammonia, never too bad, spiking in nitrates also. nitrates 0, ph7.5 constant. i noticed one of my girls laying at the bottom, same as my betta when he was sick. i immediately QTd in same gallon bowl added less salt that i did with my male. 79 degrees. she seems to be doing a lot better, she's been in for like almost a day and a half. only thing: her fins have been clamped when she's not swimming towards me.

now, today, since the time she was QTd, my guppies tails are disappearing! it was just one guy, but hours later the other two. i have not QTd them. i don't have anywhere to put them(if its an emergency i have gallon jugs, i guess or a couple 5g buckets that are clean),

oh an in my 10g tanks with my girls and guppies, i have a terrible power filter that i feel is dirtying up the tank. I've had problems with it since i started my tank. it even previously sucked a snail up and i ended up having to do a 100% water change and it was sad (from my loss) and gross.

i have a few questions that i would really like to know immediately, I've spent endless hours on the internet only to find out everyone does everything different and I'm scared I'm going to lose more of my babies.

questions:
should i remove said filter, and totally replace it (i purchased a bio wheel filter) but will i lose all my good bacteria and have to cycle again?

would cycling again stress out my fish more?

i am wondering if it is ich. i haven't seen any true white spots, but i have gotten paranoid and think i seem some, then later they aren't there. especially wondering with the sudden problems with my guppies tails.

should i treat the whole tank? how would i treat it? Maracin 2 i read is the way to go, or hiking the heat up to around 86? whats your advice or experience with anti bacterial/antibiotics?

if i treat with whatever suggested medicine, will it hurt my plants?

should i do a 100% WC or keep doing 25-50%?(I've been changing it like every two to three days @ 50% to keep ammonia down)

sorry this is long, but i really need help. i don't know what to do. i can't lose these fish like i did my little boy… thanks in advance to anyone willing to answer!

 

[merlebaderle]

uhm, please??

as of now 21 people have viewed this. why can't anyone give me any advice? i have tried to receive advice from different places: the 2 pet stores in my area, from a friend thats very talented -in saltwater though-and from many, many, many places on the internet. there is so much contradiction. then places want to tell me its better for bettas to be in a 1 gallon bowl. i just want some opinions because i don't want to lose any fish! i feel like I'm in high school again, like I'm not cool enough to get an answer. I WANT TO HELP MY FISH. why can i never get any information?

 

[Mebbid]

as of now 21 people have viewed this. why can't anyone give me any advice? i have tried to receive advice from different places: the 2 pet stores in my area, from a friend thats very talented -in saltwater though-and from many, many, many places on the internet. there is so much contradiction. then places want to tell me its better for bettas to be in a 1 gallon bowl. i just want some opinions because i don't want to lose any fish! i feel like I'm in high school again, like I'm not cool enough to get an answer. I WANT TO HELP MY FISH. why can i never get any information?

Relax a little bit, a lot of people dont know the best way to answer the questions, so they view a thread and then back out.

hi, i have tried to ask on other forums and never received the answers i was looking for.

this is pretty urgent, at least in my opinion.

i lost my beloved betta about half a week ago. he was a male, kept in a 29g tank.
kept with 8 tetras (never nipped him ever)
4 emerald corey cats
4 apple snails
i introduced danios quickly (yeah yeah i know i should've QT'd them for at least a couple weeks before introducing them, but I'm new at this and the pet shops advice apparently was WAY wrong) i feel they stressed him out with all the activity but he was very very active still, swimming all around, curious, always coming to me when he saw me.

Then his tail fin started diminishing. it wasn't bad. i watched and watched and finally saw a dan nip him. i immediately removed them and had to return them. the pet shop gave me Bettafix, i never used it. i QTd him in a gallon bowl (i read on the internet to do this; lots of different information on all of this). i put in a tsp of aquarium salt, it was heated and clean. btw my 29g tank spiked a tiny bit after i added the danios but i did enough water changes to fix that, then perimeters were perfect again. my little guy died the next day. still don't fully know what exactly why he suddenly died, his tail was only missing in parts, never to his body. his eyes swelled up and then i lost him.

okay, so… that said, i have a 10g tank, with a sorority of 4 female bettas, 2 guppies. it is a planted tank. but only anachatis. it keeps spiking in ammonia, never too bad, spiking in nitrates also. nitrates 0, ph7.5 constant. i noticed one of my girls laying at the bottom, same as my betta when he was sick. i immediately QTd in same gallon bowl added less salt that i did with my male. 79 degrees. she seems to be doing a lot better, she's been in for like almost a day and a half. only thing: her fins have been clamped when she's not swimming towards me.

now, today, since the time she was QTd, my guppies tails are disappearing! it was just one guy, but hours later the other two. i have not QTd them. i don't have anywhere to put them(if its an emergency i have gallon jugs, i guess or a couple 5g buckets that are clean),

oh an in my 10g tanks with my girls and guppies, i have a terrible power filter that i feel is dirtying up the tank. I've had problems with it since i started my tank. it even previously sucked a snail up and i ended up having to do a 100% water change and it was sad (from my loss) and gross.

i have a few questions that i would really like to know immediately, I've spent endless hours on the internet only to find out everyone does everything different and I'm scared I'm going to lose more of my babies.

questions:
should i remove said filter, and totally replace it (i purchased a bio wheel filter) but will i lose all my good bacteria and have to cycle again?

would cycling again stress out my fish more?

i am wondering if it is ich. i haven't seen any true white spots, but i have gotten paranoid and think i seem some, then later they aren't there. especially wondering with the sudden problems with my guppies tails.

should i treat the whole tank? how would i treat it? Maracin 2 i read is the way to go, or hiking the heat up to around 86? whats your advice or experience with anti bacterial/antibiotics?

if i treat with whatever suggested medicine, will it hurt my plants?

should i do a 100% WC or keep doing 25-50%?(I've been changing it like every two to three days @ 50% to keep ammonia down)

sorry this is long, but i really need help. i don't know what to do. i can't lose these fish like i did my little boy… thanks in advance to anyone willing to answer!

1 - Filter: i would go ahead and replace it. Just keep the current filter pad in the old filter and cram it into the new filter. You shouldnt see any cycle at all.

2 - Cycling: If you keep the filter cartridge then you wont have to cycle again. But either way, a properly done fish in cycle should mever be stressful.

3 - Ich will show itself in a big way usually. I wouldnt treat anything unless youre absolutely sure what youre treating for. Ich should never be a fatal illness in any case and it would have absolutely nothing to do with the tails.

4 - no. But if youre looking for an ich treatment i would go with heat treatment over all others. 86 degrees for 2 weeks after the last sign of ich goes away.

5 - Anti biotics - antibiotics are best used in a 10g hospital tank. Theres plenty out there, but it really depends on what youre treating for.

6 - medications shouldnt be used for a display tank unless absolutely necessary. Most of them will kill your cycle and many kill plants.

7 - no more than 50%. Larger than that gets stressful to the fish. Keep the ammonia down at 0.25ppm or below. If you see it risenup to 0.5ppm then do a 50% water change.


For proper diagnosis could you post pictures for us.

Most of the time bacterial infections cam be completely prevented with good water parameters. That is, ammonia and nitrite no higher than 0.25ppm and nitrate at or around 20ppm. Keeping a stress free environment and healthy water helps their immune system.

Im sure i missed things. .. but im tired and my eyes glazed over at your wall of text. If theres something i missed could you ask again?

 

[ImACoolguy]

Relax a little bit, a lot of people dont know the best way to answer the questions, so they view a thread and then back out.



1 - Filter: i would go ahead and replace it. Just keep the current filter pad in the old filter and cram it into the new filter. You shouldnt see any cycle at all.

2 - Cycling: If you keep the filter cartridge then you wont have to cycle again. But either way, a properly done fish in cycle should mever be stressful.

3 - Ich will show itself in a big way usually. I wouldnt treat anything unless youre absolutely sure what youre treating for. Ich should never be a fatal illness in any case and it would have absolutely nothing to do with the tails.

4 - no. But if youre looking for an ich treatment i would go with heat treatment over all others. 86 degrees for 2 weeks after the last sign of ich goes away.

5 - Anti biotics - antibiotics are best used in a 10g hospital tank. Theres plenty out there, but it really depends on what youre treating for.

6 - medications shouldnt be used for a display tank unless absolutely necessary. Most of them will kill your cycle and many kill plants.

7 - no more than 50%. Larger than that gets stressful to the fish. Keep the ammonia down at 0.25ppm or below. If you see it risenup to 0.5ppm then do a 50% water change.


For proper diagnosis could you post pictures for us.

Most of the time bacterial infections cam be completely prevented with good water parameters. That is, ammonia and nitrite no higher than 0.25ppm and nitrate at or around 20ppm. Keeping a stress free environment and healthy water helps their immune system.

Im sure i missed things. .. but im tired and my eyes glazed over at your wall of text. If theres something i missed could you ask again?

+1 to this. Many people including myself view a thread to see if we can help. But seeing as Ich is the only thing I have dealt with before my illness and disease knowledge is small compared to other parts of this hobby.

If you are 100% sure it's Ich turn the temp to 86 and left it sit. This greatly speeds up the life cycle of Ich without the need for medication.


Caleb

 

[NigelK8485]

as of now 21 people have viewed this. why can't anyone give me any advice? i have tried to receive advice from different places: the 2 pet stores in my area, from a friend thats very talented -in saltwater though-and from many, many, many places on the internet. there is so much contradiction. then places want to tell me its better for bettas to be in a 1 gallon bowl. i just want some opinions because i don't want to lose any fish! i feel like I'm in high school again, like I'm not cool enough to get an answer. I WANT TO HELP MY FISH. why can i never get any information?

Hahaha whoa.


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[trennamw]

Did you post in the sick fish thread and follow the directions there?

You've given a lot of info but several critical pieces are missing.

You e gotten some good advice but when you say "ammonia spikes never too bad" that's the red flag for me.

Adding stuff to the water can induce osmotic stress, so do that only if absolutely necessary. Better to remove pollutants.

Something's not right if you're seeing ammonia. What are the levels exactly and what are the nitrites?

I think a lot of people back also away from these frantic sounding posts, that aren't in the sick fish thread and don't follow the instructions there, because the fish keepers who do that tend to keep refusing to answer questions about the water parameters and their water keeping habits, they get defensive, they refuse to consider they are over stocked, over feeding, or under cleaning, and the fish die. That's hard on us too.

So ... Maybe go try again in the sick fish thread and follow all the instructions.


Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.

 

[trennamw]

Read your post again.

It's not abnormal for snails to be harmed by perfectly good filters.

The stocking scheme for your 10 sounds a little stressful. If not outright overstocked.

A filter isn't responsible for much besides moving water over your bacteria and removing particulates and a little aeration. I think it's unrealistic to blame it for dirtying the water, there's no way it's adding anything to the water that wasn't there already.

I'd suggest a few daily water changes and API stress coat as your dechlorinator at a double dose. Aloe genuinely is an antiinflammatory and helps things heal, and there's research on stress coat helping heal wounds.

And I'd make a plan to get the guppies out of the betta tank.

A newer way of looking at disease (in humans and animals) is that it's not the presence or absence of a bacteria or virus that determines illness - it is largely how healthy the animal is, how stressed they are, how much underlying inflammation is present ...

I've fought fin for several times with a whole lot of treatments. The one betta who lived (and is still alive today) went into a brand new Uncycled 3 gallon (alone) with a little Melafix and a lot of stress coat, and a better heater (a 50w that keeps temps stable, not the cheapie that just raises the bowl 2 degrees over room temp). I followed the melafix instructions and use Stress CoAt with each change. I didn't change whether I used salt, doing my best to keep the water stable.


Sent from my iPhone with three hands tied behind my back.