First Ever Aquarium: Round 2

[downtheroad]

...okay, well not my first ever. That is, if you count the jank one I had when I was about 10 where I had no idea what I was doing and the fish didn't last nearly long enough...

I've been reading these forums all day and it seems like I can get good information here. I want to have a nice setup with a decent amount of fun-to-watch (but mostly easy to look after) fish. I also would like to have live plants. Here is a breakdown of what I have:

1. 20H
2. Aquaclear Power Filter (150 gph w/ BioMax)
3. Black gravel, most likely. This is open to debate.
4. I have no water yet.
5. This is also still open, although, some ones I have looked at:
-Dwarf Guaramis (I hear other ones will get too big)
-Tetra of all sorts (are there any that are so different I should watch out for them?
-Rasbora
-Cherry, Albino, Black Ruby Barbs
-Red swordtail (although I would prefer to avoid breeding because I don't want to deal with it)
6. 1 Bottle Instant DeChlor
7. "24'' Colormax Full-Spectrum & 6700K Plant Lamp (T-5)"
8. 100W heater.

(All of my equipment came from my friend who works at a nice fish store and it's all still in boxes. I still need to get a table to put the tank on. )

I definitely would like to do live plants. I am all for cycling my water before I get any fish. I would also like to ask about using sand instead of gravel. My concern is that it would get sucked out while I am vacuuming the water. Does this indeed happen?

Mostly, what I am looking for is some direction. What sorts of things should I do first. I would imagine that I should set up my water, gravel (or sand), filter, heater, decoration, plants and light. From there I am somewhat blurry. I have seen lots of websites talking about the nitrogen cycle so I'll probably review that as I do things. But if anybody could just sort of give me a nudge in the right direction, that would be great. I'll be posting plenty of questions in the future, I am sure.

Edit: I just saw this link http://www.elmersaquarium.com/c106community2.htm and I think I am interested in a setup like that.

 

[TomK2]

Welcom to AA! While you can't have all the fish you want in a 20 gal, you can have a real nice tank. Check out the FW planted tank forum. I have heard recomendations that even low light tanks can benefit from a plant substrate compared to regular gravel. I would think a high light tank would be a little hard for your first tank. Heck, plants are hard for me and I have had numerous tanks. But thats just me, I think. I think your equipment is fine, go for about 1.5 watts per gallon in lighting. I would plan your tank. Then put the substrate where you want it. You can have light colored gravel in a frontal area that won't have plants, and the darker plant substrate elseshere. Amano does that, and it looks good. Then tie the plants on your driftwood or other decorations and place them. Add a little water, not disturbing the substrate. Then put in your plants that are taller in the back into the substrate or attached to whatever, and fill the tank the rest.

You still have to cycle the tank. Add very few fish (lets say, less than one inch per 5 gallons) and monitor it. Start with hardy fish like danios or platies. And have fun!

 

[Jchillin]

Welcome to AA.

You appear to have already done a ton of research so you are already heading in the right direction.

In so far and substrate choice...the choice is yours. You can view some of the various substrate types in the photo galleries here at AA. However, if you really want to do a planted tank, sand isn't the best choice. A substrate like Eco-Complete or a regular gravel (pea sized) with a laerite (sp) layer is very good.

As TomK2 mentions, you will be limited to the amount of fish you can have in the 20 gal but a nicely stocked planted tank is well within your range.

The link from Elmer's is basically a guide for fish that can co-habitate together in the same tank. The idea is to choose a couple of fish from each group to stock the tank.

Please read the cycling article in the Articles section. It explains the Nitrogen cycle. Then take a look at the sticky's in the Planted Tank section. A wealth of information is available on what you need for the various types of planted tanks.

Good Luck...and questions are always welcome.

 

[downtheroad]

Yeah, I wasn't planning on having ALL of those fish... They were just ones I'd looked at :0)

I think I like the idea of having plant substrate mixed with regular gravel. Sand looks cool, but if it's not good for the plants then I don't want to mess with it. And I guess ther is still that (potential) issue about filtering it.

I plan on doing the fishless cycling by adding my own ammonia, unless you guys have reasons not to. I'm pretty patient. I don't yet have a kit to test all of the chemical levels, however. The people at the fish store that I went to seemed to think that just letting the filter run for a few weeks would be sufficient. Of course, they're also trying to run a business and don't want to scare off customers.

Anyhoo, great advice so far. Keep it coming :0)

 

[Jchillin]

The people at the fish store that I went to seemed to think that just letting the filter run for a few weeks would be sufficient. Of course, they're also trying to run a business and don't want to scare off customers.

If ever there was a single reason that new hobbyists will quit after a few months, it's because of that one ridiculous answer. I would love to have the ability to wipe that statement out of existence.

The pure ammonia is a really good choice. You can add the amount needed and just let it cycle on it's own (@2ppm).

BTW - When I started, I found Elmer's list. I didn't know about the bio-load limits or the "true" compatibility of the fish and put some truly large fish together at one time. 8O

 

[TomK2]

Ace Hardware has the ammonia, its their own janatorial strenght 10% brand. 0.17ml per 10 gallons is 1 ppm. If you change your mind and decide not to go fishless, check out my web page devoted to this:

http://home.comcast.net/~tomstank/tomstank_files/page0017.htm

Neither method is better. Fishless may be a week or two faster, low bioload cycling is safe and kind.

BTW, I used Elmers list for stocking idead as well. It pays to have your own info, and not rely on the LFS guy.

 

[downtheroad]

What do you guys recommend on decorations? Can I use any old rocks I find lying around or should I only get pet store stuff?

Also, I should ask about the positioning of my tank. The place I want to put it is in front of a window. It is on the side of our building that does not get any direct sunlight though (i.e. the north side of a building in columbus, oh). Will it be okay there?

 

[TomK2]

I would think that next to a window, you will have more algae growth. Even indirect sunlight really helps the algae. However, I have had tanks near windows on many occasions. You have to see and enjoy your tank, so put it where you want. I would only let the sunlight/window issue come into play if you were choosing between two spots that you liked equally.

Most of us are suspcious of what might leach out of rocks and stuff we find laying around, so we go with aquarium specific decorations.

 

[Jchillin]

There are some rocks that can be used but it is a chore to gather them up and attempt to treat them and an unknown element decides to leech into your tank.

Slate is a very good choice for aquariums. You can probably get some very cheap at a building supply store. Small pieces can be siliconed together to make caves and trenches.

 

[severum mama]

First of all, WELCOME to AA Travis!!! You really seem like you have done a lot of research so good for you! Your first tank will go a lot better than mine did.

TomK2 and JC have, of course, given you great advice already, but I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents about the substrate. It sounds like you are going for a natural look with your planted tank. If you want gravel to mix with your Eco Complete or whatever you're using, I would recommend something like Estes Nature Stones gravel (I think that's what it is called). I have a tank with black gravel, and although it looked great at first, the black coating on the gravel has either faded or rubbed off and it now looks kinda gray. Of course, the Estes gravel is not black, but it does give the tank a nice natural look and it won't fade.
I think this is what I bought, and it looks great:
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=20535&category_id=1675&pcid1=1695

One more thing: I would not recommend barbs for a 20 gallon high. I don't think it would provide them with enough swimming space, as they are very active fish.

 

[downtheroad]

After reading some of the articles online, I am starting to think that the lamp I have is too powerful for my plants. Am I going to have to invest in some sort of a CO2 setup in this case?

 

[severum mama]

Definitely. You will also need to dose a lot of fertilizers. I'm not exactly sure what else a high light planted tank entails, but I'm sure someone in the planted tank forum could tell you. travis simonson has a high light planted tank and if you send him a PM he could answer all your questions.

Or, if you don't feel like having such a high maintenance tank yet, could you return your light strip and get a different one?

 

[downtheroad]

Well, that would be hard at this point. I live in Columbus, and I got all of my stuff from someone I know who works at a store in Cincinnati. (I fixed his computer, he bought me fish stuff). I guess it's a newer lamp or something that he got for free so he just gave it to me. He seemed to think I'd be able to grow plants with it *shrug*

I'll probably post something in the planted tank forum. I keep forgetting that it exists!

 

[downtheroad]

I am also in the market for a stand for my tank. Actually it doesn't have to be a dedicated fish tank stand, if there are other things that will work. Does anybody have any suggestions for this or at least what NOT to look for? I really would like to avoid having to shell out $60+ for a stand.

 

[downtheroad]

Once I get my stand, here is the game plan:

Wash out all of my gravel. (Do you wash out the special live plant gravel?)
Add the gravel to my tank.
Fill the tank with water
Add decorations
Install filter
Install heater

Now, I'm not sure if I should put in my plants now or wait until after the tank is cycled... I will be adding ammonia and monitoring all of the chemical levels (fishless cycle)

Is there anything I'm forgetting or will be doing wrong?

 

[mattrox]

It sounds like you are on track.

 

[downtheroad]

Here is the new list of list of fish that I am going to decide from:

**************************************************************
* Dwarf Guarami (just 1 or 2, most likely 1)
* Tetras (are there any in particular that would not work well??)
* Cory Cats
* Loach (can anybody recommend a few different loaches that would work, if any?)
* Redtail shark (will one of these get too big for me?)
* Swordtail (in this case, I was thinking of only getting 1 because I don't want to end up with fry. Do they do okay by themselves?)
* White Clouds (Danios)
**************************************************************



As I said, I am considering these fish. If anybody can eliminate some from the list because they will not work in my tank, that would be helpful. If they are all compatible, then I'll have a lot of decisions to make : p

Also, if you have any other fish that you would like to suggest to me, I'm very open to expanding the list.

Thanks guys.

 

[flamingonhot]

i wouldn't put white clouds in there unless you decide to keep the temps at about 75 or lower.

 

[downtheroad]

Oh yes... I just saw the temperature requirement for them. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[severum mama]

You could keep yo yo loaches. They max out at about 4 inches and prefer to be in groups. They are so pretty and very active as well- I really enjoy mine. I think khuli loaches would work as well.
A red tail shark will outgrow your tank, unfortunately.
One dwarf gourami would be better, as they can be territorial with each other.
I think one swordtail would do fine by itself, but I haven't kept them so I can't say for sure.
Cory cats would be a great addition. They also prefer to be in schools, and there are a lot of species for you to choose from. However, since your tank is only 20 gallons, I would say that you need to choose between the corys and loaches. IMO you wouldn't have room for both- you don't want to overstock your tank.
White clouds, as pointed out, do better in cooler water, so you may just want to try the tetras instead.
Most kinds of tetras will work great in your tank. Just make sure to get at least 6 since they are schooling fish. Pristellas, glowlights, neons, cardinals, serpaes, green fires, etc. would all be good choices.

You have really been doing a lot of research! That's great. Your tank will do really well because of it. HTH