Fish-in cycle

[KFav93]

My tank has bern cycling for a few weeks. Ive been changing 25% water everyday. Ive been using ammolock and prime. I just feel like this is taking forever. My results from my API master test kit are this.

Ammonia 1.0 ppm
Nitrite 0 ppm
Nitrate 5.0 ppm

Is this progress? Any suggestions? Should i just continue what im doing?
I just added another plant. A compacta sword. Anything special i should be aware of for that plant?

 

[Ashenwelt]

Why ammolock and prime? Prime takes care of Ammonia. Are you using Seachem Stability or Dr Tim's One and Only? I am a big proponent that if you do fish in, then use bacteria.

Your results look odd though. Could you please test your basic water, pre prime/ammo-lock?

 

[KFav93]

Why ammolock and prime? Prime takes care of Ammonia. Are you using Seachem Stability or Dr Tim's One and Only? I am a big proponent that if you do fish in, then use bacteria.

Your results look odd though. Could you please test your basic water, pre prime/ammo-lock?

I have never even heard of those. After all of the people that I've talked to around here no one has mentioned that. I used ammolock to protect my fish from the ammonia. Someone on here recommended it. And prime is my water conditioner. I can't get my tank established. It's taking forever. I've has my ammonia, nitrites and nitrates going up and down. The nitrites have been at a steady 0 lately though.

 

[Ashenwelt]

I have never even heard of those. After all of the people that I've talked to around here no one has mentioned that. I used ammolock to protect my fish from the ammonia. Someone on here recommended it. And prime is my water conditioner. I can't get my tank established. It's taking forever. I've has my ammonia, nitrites and nitrates going up and down. The nitrites have been at a steady 0 lately though.

Ok, so a quick step by step I use.

1. Plant the tank.
2. Place prime conditioned water in the tank - note prime deals with Ammonia.
3. Begin Seachem Stability treatments or Dr Tims One and Only
4. If Stability, treat daily and follow instructions. If Dr Tims follow instructions (will be less water changes).
5. Success.

I would jump on amazon and order. This is a 1-2 week and done solution.

But please test the tap water, it looks like it may have nitrates already in it. And please, be nice to your fish, don't prime and ammolock.

 

[KFav93]

And please, be nice to your fish, don't prime and ammolock.

Everyone swears by prime and you're telling me not to use it?

 

[Andy Sager]

I have never even heard of those. After all of the people that I've talked to around here no one has mentioned that. I used ammolock to protect my fish from the ammonia. Someone on here recommended it. And prime is my water conditioner. I can't get my tank established. It's taking forever. I've has my ammonia, nitrites and nitrates going up and down. The nitrites have been at a steady 0 lately though.

A couple of things:
1) if you are using PRIME, there is no need for the ammolock as PRIME detoxifies the ammonia and turns it into ammonium which is a much safer chemical for the fish. FYI: PRIME also detoxifies nitrite and heavy metals as well when used as directed. I always suggest a water change first then adding PRIME to deal with the remaining levels of nitrite or ammonia. When doing a fish in cycle, a large water change amount can stress the fish enough to kill them which is why small daily changes are better as time has proven.

2) A fish in cycle does take a long time because you are constantly diluting the ammonia when doing your water changes however, if you have had both an ammonia spike and a nitrite spike and fall, you have created a bacteria bed ( a cycled/established tank) but the presence of ammonia now is a problem. Nitrates should be all you are getting a reading of since it is the end byproduct of ammonia and nitrite. So, assuming you did have these spikes and the nitrate level is not coming from your source water( you will need to do a test of your source water to confirm this), you have too much ammonia producers and not enough ammonia consumers which is why I presume, you are getting the ammonia reading. Overfeeding, overcrowding and under filtration ( biologically speaking) are the 3 main causes for high ammonia levels in a tank. Look into these first and if none of these fit your situation, dig deeper into why you are getting an ammonia reading. It's coming from somewhere.

 

[Ashenwelt]

Everyone swears by prime and you're telling me not to use it?

Use prime, stop with Ammlock! Prime does Ammonia.

 

[KFav93]

A couple of things:
1) if you are using PRIME, there is no need for the ammolock as PRIME detoxifies the ammonia and turns it into ammonium which is a much safer chemical for the fish. FYI: PRIME also detoxifies nitrite and heavy metals as well when used as directed. I always suggest a water change first then adding PRIME to deal with the remaining levels of nitrite or ammonia. When doing a fish in cycle, a large water change amount can stress the fish enough to kill them which is why small daily changes are better as time has proven.

2) A fish in cycle does take a long time because you are constantly diluting the ammonia when doing your water changes however, if you have had both an ammonia spike and a nitrite spike and fall, you have created a bacteria bed ( a cycled/established tank) but the presence of ammonia now is a problem. Nitrates should be all you are getting a reading of since it is the end byproduct of ammonia and nitrite. So, assuming you did have these spikes and the nitrate level is not coming from your source water( you will need to do a test of your source water to confirm this), you have too much ammonia producers and not enough ammonia consumers which is why I presume, you are getting the ammonia reading. Overfeeding, overcrowding and under filtration ( biologically speaking) are the 3 main causes for high ammonia levels in a tank. Look into these first and if none of these fit your situation, dig deeper into why you are getting an ammonia reading. It's coming from somewhere.

Well my nitrites are finally gone. I do have nitrates but I'm not sure if the nitrates are from my tap water. I'll test that later today. The ammonia was a lot worse before, it's actually an improvement from what is was. I'm so frustrated. I just want my ammonia gone.

 

[Andy Sager]

Well my nitrites are finally gone. I do have nitrates but I'm not sure if the nitrates are from my tap water. I'll test that later today. The ammonia was a lot worse before, it's actually an improvement from what is was. I'm so frustrated. I just want my ammonia gone.

I'm sure there are many threads on here about the cycling process so I will just give you a broad thing to use. Think of your cycling process as a graph/ picture. When you are done, and you connect all the points in the graph, it should look like a camel with 2 1/2 humps. Ammonia comes first so that is the first dot on the page. Every other day, test the level and graph it and you should see it start to rise. There are no nitrites or nitrates at this point due to the lack of conversion by any bacteria. If there are readings other than ammonia at this point, it's coming from your source water. When ammonia is at it's highest level, nitrites will start to be produced so at the highest ammonia point there should also by a point where nitrites are just above 0. As the nitrites climb, the ammonia is falling so when the nitrites are at their peak, ammonia should be 0 ( the first hump of the camel is now done) and now nitrates have a point just above 0. As the nitrates climb, the nitrites fall back to 0 completing the second hump and the half hump is the rise of nitrates. So you see, you should not have ammonia in a cycled tank as there are bacteria already present to consume it. So usually, the way to tell a tank has cycled is to have nitrates showing with a 0 nitrite level and a 0 ammonia level. If you have ammonia and nitrates both, something's not right. Your reading says something's not right.
Unfortunately, time is your best ally if you don't want to use chemicals. I've cycled thousands of tanks with nothing more than fish ( the right fish ) and established media from existing tanks. But if you are in a hurry, ( something a good fish keeper is never in btw ) try using some of the biological agents already discussed. Personally, I think you are past the stage of needing them.

 

[KFav93]

I'm sure there are many threads on here about the cycling process so I will just give you a broad thing to use. Think of your cycling process as a graph/ picture. When you are done, and you connect all the points in the graph, it should look like a camel with 2 1/2 humps. Ammonia comes first so that is the first dot on the page. Every other day, test the level and graph it and you should see it start to rise. There are no nitrites or nitrates at this point due to the lack of conversion by any bacteria. If there are readings other than ammonia at this point, it's coming from your source water. When ammonia is at it's highest level, nitrites will start to be produced so at the highest ammonia point there should also by a point where nitrites are just above 0. As the nitrites climb, the ammonia is falling so when the nitrites are at their peak, ammonia should be 0 ( the first hump of the camel is now done) and now nitrates have a point just above 0. As the nitrates climb, the nitrites fall back to 0 completing the second hump and the half hump is the rise of nitrates. So you see, you should not have ammonia in a cycled tank as there are bacteria already present to consume it. So usually, the way to tell a tank has cycled is to have nitrates showing with a 0 nitrite level and a 0 ammonia level. If you have ammonia and nitrates both, something's not right. Your reading says something's not right.
Unfortunately, time is your best ally if you don't want to use chemicals. I've cycled thousands of tanks with nothing more than fish ( the right fish ) and established media from existing tanks. But if you are in a hurry, ( something a good fish keeper is never in btw ) try using some of the biological agents already discussed. Personally, I think you are past the stage of needing them.

So would you suggest getting seachem stability? I think my cycle should be almost finished. My annomia is better than what is was. But idk why I have nitrates. I'm going to test my tap water tonight and I'll let you know the results.

 

[Andy Sager]

No one can answer that question correctly without knowing how you are getting the nitrate reading.

 

[KFav93]

No one can answer that question correctly without knowing how you are getting the nitrate reading.

My water source has 5.0 ppm for nitrate. Uh oh. So what does this mean?

 

[Andy Sager]

My water source has 5.0 ppm for nitrate. Uh oh. So what does this mean?

It means that you have nitrates in your source water and so in order to know that you've finished cycling your tank, you need to have a higher amount of nitrates than your source water's level ( assuming you are not using anything like plants or chemicals that absorb the nitrates or you are doing daily water changes. )
So let's assume that you have seen the spikes in Ammonia and Nitrites and at some point, they both went down to 0 ppm, you need to determine what is causing the ammonia level to rise now. What it may be is that you are getting a reading due to changing your water every day and since one of the products you were using is not removing it but just detoxifying it, what you are reading is NH4 ( ammonium) and not NH3 ammonia.
What I suggest is to stop doing daily water changes and test your water daily for the next week to see if the ammonia level continues to rise, fall or stay the same. A rise means that you do not have enough biological filtering to handle the ammonia production currently in the tank. ( be careful not to overfeed during this test period.) If it falls, it means you do. You should also start seeing a rise in nitrates as well. If it stays the same, you need to check your reagents to make sure you are getting an accurate reading. Take a sample of your water to your LFS and have them check it with their kits and yours for comparison.

Keep in mind that while ammonia is not the best condition to have in a tank, Nitrites are worse for the fish and so if the ammonia level is present but the nitrite level remains low or at 0, you should have a cycled tank. Remember the graph. If there is nitrite production, there is bacteria present. if there is nitrate production ( other than from your source water), there is the other bacteria present. Your job then is to not overload the system with fish and food.

Keep us posted

 

[KFav93]

It means that you have nitrates in your source water and so in order to know that you've finished cycling your tank, you need to have a higher amount of nitrates than your source water's level ( assuming you are not using anything like plants or chemicals that absorb the nitrates or you are doing daily water changes. )
So let's assume that you have seen the spikes in Ammonia and Nitrites and at some point, they both went down to 0 ppm, you need to determine what is causing the ammonia level to rise now. What it may be is that you are getting a reading due to changing your water every day and since one of the products you were using is not removing it but just detoxifying it, what you are reading is NH4 ( ammonium) and not NH3 ammonia.
What I suggest is to stop doing daily water changes and test your water daily for the next week to see if the ammonia level continues to rise, fall or stay the same. A rise means that you do not have enough biological filtering to handle the ammonia production currently in the tank. ( be careful not to overfeed during this test period.) If it falls, it means you do. You should also start seeing a rise in nitrates as well. If it stays the same, you need to check your reagents to make sure you are getting an accurate reading. Take a sample of your water to your LFS and have them check it with their kits and yours for comparison.

Keep in mind that while ammonia is not the best condition to have in a tank, Nitrites are worse for the fish and so if the ammonia level is present but the nitrite level remains low or at 0, you should have a cycled tank. Remember the graph. If there is nitrite production, there is bacteria present. if there is nitrate production ( other than from your source water), there is the other bacteria present. Your job then is to not overload the system with fish and food.

Keep us posted

Well now I tested my tank water and the annomia went up again and now I have nitrites again. I don't understand. When I tested for nitrites the other day it said 0. Now that and the annomia are up again. Also, I was told to keep doing daily water changes. I'm scared to not do a water change for a few days. I don't want to lose any more fish

 

[KFav93]

Also, I do have plants

 

[Andy Sager]

Okay, so that means you have an uncycled tank and what you do next is up to you. You can use an additive or you can try to get some filter material from an established tank to better seed your tank or you can continue to do daily changes until you stop getting the ammonia readings. Use the PRIME alone to keep the ammonia detoxified while the bacteria bed establishes. It's safe to use up to 5 times the dosage.
Also, are you using any kind of plant fertilizer? That is a source of ammonia as well and may be part of your problem?

 

[KFav93]

Okay, so that means you have an uncycled tank and what you do next is up to you. You can use an additive or you can try to get some filter material from an established tank to better seed your tank or you can continue to do daily changes until you stop getting the ammonia readings. Use the PRIME alone to keep the ammonia detoxified while the bacteria bed establishes. It's safe to use up to 5 times the dosage.
Also, are you using any kind of plant fertilizer? That is a source of ammonia as well and may be part of your problem?

I bought srachem stability. I'm going to add it tonight. I don't have an established tank available to seed unfortunately. I'll stop the ammolock and just use prime. Do you think I should do water changes with the stability? It says add 1 cap a day for 7 days. Nothing about waterchanging. Also, I do not use fertilizers.

 

[Andy Sager]

I bought srachem stability. I'm going to add it tonight. I don't have an established tank available to seed unfortunately. I'll stop the ammolock and just use prime. Do you think I should do water changes with the stability? It says add 1 cap a day for 7 days. Nothing about waterchanging. Also, I do not use fertilizers.

Follow the directions. If you are supposed to change water, the directions will tell you to do that.

 

[KFav93]

Follow the directions. If you are supposed to change water, the directions will tell you to do that.

It doesn't say to. I'm just scared if I don't I'll lose fish that's all >.<

 

[Ashenwelt]

It doesn't say to. I'm just scared if I don't I'll lose fish that's all >.<

Stability is compatible with Prime, but you will end up needing to double does sometimes since you need to keep up the bacteria.

Also, remember, Prime will take care of some of that ammonia... and leave it for the bacteria to eat. It binds it.

Do not stress.