Fishless Cycle stalled or not? Odd readings.

[willhart]

Hi,

I am doing my first fishless cycle, I have based it on the excellent guide by ECO 23 on this forum.

My Tank is 60L (16 US Galons) The Tank was a Birthday present for my young son, and he has made the grown up decision to allow me to cycle the tank without fish, I explained the two processes to him and he chose the one that would make the fish happier, even though it means him waiting to get fish. He is only 7!

I have a really good air pump cranked right up and the tank temp is 85'F

I managed to get 8 galons of mature water from my LFS with a filter squeeze in it, i couldn't get them to give me any filter media!

I have seperated out and planted a Java Fern pot and also another easy to care plant which i have forgotten the name of! So the plant is reasonably heavily planted for a small tank.

I have the JBL Master Test Kit which i am finding great to use.

Anyway, I set up the tank and half filled it with treated tap water that was completely chlorine free according to my test. I then added the 8 Galons of mature water and let the tank settle and get up to temperature. I did add a pinch of ground up Fish Food to make sure the bacteria did not die.

All water tests for PH and Harness looked good with all levels in the normal range, No Ammonium, small amount of Nitrite, and a lot of Nitrate 80ppm, due to the mature water I assume.

Next Day I added my nice (non foaming) ammonia to 4ppm.

Day 2: 24hrs later the ammonia had dropped right off to 0.1ppm,
Water: Slightly Cloudy
NH4 = 0.1ppm
NO2 = 20ppm
NO3 = 80ppm

I dosed back up to 4ppm Ammonia.

Day 3: 24hrs on and again Amonia was right down.
Water: Cloudy
NH4 = 0.5ppm
NO2 = 5ppm
NO3 = 80ppm

Again i dosed back up to 4ppm

Day 4: Yesterday was strange, The water had gone Crystal Clear which looked great. Again Amonia had dropped off but bizarley, the Nitrate had dropped right off to 5ppm? I did not expect or understand this, i tested twice to make sure. Could this be the plants using the Nitrate?
Water: Crystal Clear
NH4 = 0.5ppm
NO2 = 5ppm
NO3 = 5ppm

Anyway, I added a few new ornaments to the tank that my son had chosen and then again I dosed back up to 4ppm, I think maybe I overdosed a bit, it may have been closer to 5ppm but i thought it would be OK.

Day 5: Today is not good i think, The ammonia has not really reduced, still about 4ppm. This is the first time it has not dropped since I started. I am worried as nothing seems to have happened in 24hrs. I did a full set of tests and all parameters are normal, i.e. chlorine, PH, Hardness etc.
Water: Crystal Clear
NH4 = 4ppm
NO2 = 5ppm
NO3 = 5ppm

Can anybody explain what might be happening. The water is still clear. I have added another pinch of ground up fish food, in case it needs some more nutrients to get going again.

the plants seem to be doing well!

I thought we had got a real flying start to our cycle, now I am worried it is stalled or even failed and i may have the full 4 weeks to wait after all?

I will post tomorrows readings as soon as I take them.

Any advice much appreciated.

Will.

 

[willhart]

Just carried out my next test. Still the amonia has not dropped and is reading close to 5ppm. Also I have some jelly like goo forming on the gravel. It looks clear in colour. Think it must be some form of Algea???
So I have carried out a large water change and used my gravel vacuum to get rid of the goo.
I have refilled with temp matched treated water and will do a much lower dose of amonia to hopefully get things going again once I have checked yhe PH and hardness are OK.
Could all this be due to putting in some new ornaments? We washed all the origional ones, but due to my sons excitement we put new ones in straight out the box at the weekend, that is the only thing I can think that may have stopped the cycle?

 

[rmiller]

It's strange that you would see such a drastic drop in nitrates unless you did a large water change. Where has your ph been? Does it fluctuate or stay steady?

 

[willhart]

Ph has been steady. The drop in Nitrates coincided with the water clearing. I certainky didnt do a water change until today.
Just tested the water 3 hours after the water change...
KH: 8
Ph: 7.6
GH: 16
These levels have been typical readings from day 1 with no change.

And for the other readongs post water change...
NH4: 1ppm
NO2: 0.05
NO3: 5
This seems a good new starting point. I didnt add any new ammonia this must have been in the remaining water.

 

[rmiller]

Go ahead and dose the ammonia back up to around 2 ppm and check it again after 24 hours.

 

[willhart]

Thanks for taking an interest. I dosed the tank to 2ppm last night. I will test again tonight and see whats happening.

I have a good friend who is returning from a 2 week holiday tomorrow who has a mature tank. Im hoping to get some mature filter media from him later this week which should help.

 

[rmiller]

I'm not familiar with the jbl test kit, bit I'm guessing it has at least 2 bottles of drops for testing nitrate. With the api test kit that most people use you have to shake the #2 bottle for at least 2 minutes before testing to get an accurate reading. This is because the solids in the solution settle and have to be remixed thoroughly. On you test tonight, set a timer for 2 minutes and shake that bottle the whole time. Your arm will feel like its going to fall off, but keep shaking. That may give you the answer to why your nitrates dropped so suddenly.

 

[willhart]

Thanks. My Nitrate test consists of two tiny spoonfuls of white powder then 6 drops of a solution added to 10ml of water.
I will shake the solution tonight.

 

[Masha]

I suspect the reason the API test needs to be shaken hard is because the powder is suspended in one of the liquid bottles, and has to be shaken loose as it sinks to the bottom? I might be wrong about that though.

I use a Tetra nitrate kit in which the powder comes separately too, so no need to shake so hard.

I was told the Tetra kit has a very good reputation, and so far I've not had problems.

 

[rmiller]

Masha, you're probably right. Like I said, I've never used either of those brands, only the api kit.

 

[willhart]

Ok. I have taken my readings for today. It was late last night when I dosed the ammonium and I wanted to get back to my normal testing time so it has really only been 19hrs since the amonia went in at 2ppm.
Today...
NH4: 0.8 ppm
NO2: 0.6ppm (0.05ppm yesterday)
NO3: 5ppm (No change)

Looks like its going again but slowly.

Also slime is reapeering on the gravel despite yesterdays water change. Is this algea? My son keeps turning the light on!

 

[Masha]

Is the slime colourless?

 

[Masha]

...or brownish? It's probably diatoms and nothing to worry about. Read about it here http://www.aquascapingworld.com/algaepedia/full_view_algae.php?item_id=79

 

[willhart]

No this is prety colorless, white/clear and quite hard to spot. Without wanting to be crude, It looks like somebody has sneazed ingo the tank!
Its like clear jello.

 

[Masha]

I had exactly the same colorless.

Went away by itself. I wiped a lot of it off when I did my final water change and it never came back. Diatoms.

 

[willhart]

Thanks. That is good to know.

 

[willhart]

Not Happy tonight.

Ammonia levels exactly where I dosed it to yesterday.
Nitrites have gone down to almost nothing.
Nitrates have almost disapeared!
NH4: 2ppm
NO2: 0.05 ppm
NO3: 0.5ppm

I thought we were back on track yesterday but maybe not.

Hoping to get some ceramic media from my friends filter in the next day or so.

But I am worried this is twice that I have gone from seemingly processing the ammonia well to nothing happening. Does this mean something is killing my first stage bacteria?

Are my Nitrites being processed or just being filtered out or uded by the plants?

Where have my Nitrates gone? Plants?

HELP. nothing is happening as described in the guides!

 

[Caliban07]

I would leave it now for a couple of days and wait for ammonia to clear (assuming it will) when ammo gets to 0ppm, dose again 0.5ppm let it 0 out then does 1ppm let it 0 out then dose in increments of 0.5ppm till you reach target value of 4ppm. When ammo goes from 4ppm-0ppm in 24 hrs and you have no nitrites and 10-20ppm nitrates you are cycled.

I think it's time to take it slow and be a little but more patient. It can take best part of a month to cycle.

Fish less cycling can be very frustrating when starting out and you wouldn't be the first to have problems so don't worry. Dose slowly and work up to your target of 4ppm.

Good luck

 

[willhart]

Todays test done. No change at all. Nonimprovement at all. If anything it looks like the ammonia level has gone up slightly. Its reading 3ppm.

I know I need to be patient but for the first few days with the seeding wster from the shop it was all going very well. Now I seem to have no bacteria and nothong happening.

I am worried I may have the wrong ammonia. It is ammonia at 7.5% concentration. It lists no other ingredients. It doesnt foam in the bottle just a few clear bubbles clinging to the side of the bottle if you really shake it up. But no foam. However I have had a very thin layer of foam on the top of my tank water since the first dose of ammonia. But I have a powerful filter and a very strong air pump on full power so I guess a bit of surface foam is normal?

 

[Masha]

From how you describe it, the ammonia sounds fine.

I may have read your posts wrong, but this is still early days in the cycle, right?

In my case, ammonia started dropping on day 4, and the cycle was only completed after about four weeks.