Fishless Cycle stuck- on nitrites

[agor123]

Hi All,

Just joined this group as I'm desperate for some advice and not sure where else to look

I started my fishless cycle 50 days ago and all was going well. I started off with Dr. Tim's One and Only and his Ammonia concentrate. Everything started off great- Ammonia dropping from 2ppm to 0 in 24 hours relatively quickly, started seeing nitrites on day 7. Nitrites started to climb until I saw them max out over 5ppm on my API test around day 21. I did a few water changes to get them back down to readable levels (per other's advice) and have maintained nitrites to be able to be read on API test every since while also keeping up with my regular dosing over ammonia every few days to make sure nitrites don't go crazy again. Ammonia is still processing within 24 hours but nitrites are not showing any signs of downwards movement since day 7 (I'm now on day 50- nitrite spike happened on day 21). I feel like I'm following all advice but not understanding why my nitrites aren't converting. I bought a heater last week to see if that would speed things up and have been keeping it a constant 83 degrees.

Wondering if me being without a heater/bare bottom is causing the cycle to slow? Seeing mixed reviews about this. Doesn't seem like my nitrates are moving up either At a loss as to what I should do next. Just seems like a long time regardless for my nitrites not coming down at all.

Info about my tank: 20 gal long bare bottom with 40gal sponge filter, air pump, lots of decorations (all fake plants/wood- nothing live/real). Was planning on stocking my tank beginning of December so anything I can do or advice- I'm all ears! Unfortunately, I will be getting a baby axolotl and can't add substrate as it'll be too small so that's out of the question.

 

[Aiken Drum]

I dont see anything wrong in what you are doing. Your water temp is a little low, 86f would be better, but your tank will cycle at the temperature you have it. If the tank has been room temperature for most of those 50 days though that would lengthen the process.

You have been going for 7 weeks, and should be getting towards the end.

Have you tried skipping a day dosing ammonia? It doesnt take a lot of ammonia to produce high nitrite. Skipping a day dosing ammonia will give you a better chance of seeing if nitrite is dropping as you won't be topping it up by adding ammonia.

I think its just a matter of patience. 6 to 8 weeks is normal, but 3 months isnt unusual. The ammonia to nitrite stage is always quicker than the nitrite to nitrate stage.

I would also add we get a lot of new members here having issues cycling tanks. By far more people have issues with fishless cycle, than fish in. They dont really understand how to do it properly, have unrealistic exectations on how long it will take. Almost without fail, switching to a fish in cycle solves their issues.

You have gone 50 days though, i would give it a bit more time though.

 

[agor123]

Thanks so much for your response! Glad to hear I'm seemingly doing everything right! Have gotten to the point where I'm considering a fish-in cycle. If I were to switch to a fish-in cycle, would I just get a few hardy fish and let it finish out? Would I need to do daily water changes to keep nitrite low?

Might just wait it out anyways but also nice to have a back up

 

[Aiken Drum]

If you wanted to go to a fish in cycle, 100% water change and get a few fish to start with. Monitor water daily, change as needed (ammonia + nitrite combined no higher than 0.5ppm). Add a few more fish when you are consistently seeing safe water quailty. Rinse and repeat until fully stocked.

You wouldnt be starting from scratch, you have the benefit of 7 weeks of fishless cycle.

Honesty, i think some nitrite is being processed out. Every 1ppm of ammonia going in, results in 2.7ppm nitrite coming out. If you are dosing 2ppm ammonia daily, thats over 5ppm nitrite daily. If you are cycling out say 3ppm of nitrite daily, then your nitrite is still going to rise by 2ppm every day. Skip dosing ammonia for a couple of days and see what happens with your nitrite. It wont hurt your ammonia to nitrite bacteria to go a couple of days (or even weeks) without food.

 

[agor123]

Thanks for the advice! I've skipped a few days since I had the nitrite spike about 20 days ago, so definitely not dosing ammonia every day. I've gone about a week without dosing ammonia before just to see and still not change in nitrite (bacteria still able to process 2ppm in 24 hours so nothing happened during that week without ammonia)

 

[Jacky12]

I did the Tim’s fishless cycle in about 18 days. He says it takes 7 days in one place and 14 in another. I added more of his One and Only Live Nitrifying bacteria than I expected. It was a hassle. I did not enjoy counting all those drops and taking numerous api readings. I am now set up to use cycled foam from other tanks, but have since learned my LFS lady would have sold me a good already cycled filter.

I have two very pretty pink axies with deeper pink gills in a 40 G breeder. I use sand for the substrate. They were purchased from an owner who no longer wanted them, ~4-5 inches. I didn’t know sand was to be avoided with smaller ones, never heard that. They’ve doubled their size in the last year. Kinda boring animals. Highly nocturnal. Like to hide all day. The only action I ever saw in that tank were nights when I watched them with a little infrared camera that uses an app on my iPad. It was entertaining for a while.

I cycled the unheated tank, Dr. Tim method, with no substrate, no nothing. I’d think heat would accelerate the process.

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

If a cycle ever seems to stall for more than a few days, do a massive (90-100%) water change with dechlorinated water and add some more ammonia.

You can add sand to the bottom of an axolotl tank. If they swallow it, the grains of sand are small enough to pass through their digestive tract.

 

[Peartree]

Hi i am new to the hobby myself and i have read your problem and as far as i can see is that if your tank is just full of water with no substrate or plants wood ect there are not alot of places for beneficial bacteria to build up its just a thought and i hope it is of some help cheers Peartree

 

[Jacky12]

I find your reasoning logical. I would like if some more experienced folks weighed in. I am a novice myself.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Hi i am new to the hobby myself and i have read your problem and as far as i can see is that if your tank is just full of water with no substrate or plants wood ect there are not alot of places for beneficial bacteria to build up its just a thought and i hope it is of some help cheers Peartree

Beneficial bacteria will grow on surfaces where there is good flow of ammonia containing, oxygenated water. This can be substrate, your aquascape, and the glass your tank is made from. But most of your BB will be grow in your filter. Lots of water passing through the filter, with sponge and other biomedia providing lots of surface area.

While more surface area will support more bacteria, if you have properly set up, suitably sized filtration you should have the conditions to cycle a tank.

 

[agor123]

Hi all! Appreciate the replies on the thread.

I've attached a photo of my tank. Disregard everything moved to one side- I was figuring out where to put an air stone and was moving things around. The temp is also lower than I normally keep it as I turned off the heater while I was moving things so the water cooled as my house is quite chilly.

I feel like I have pretty good surface area in the tank even without substrate though I know the substate would add substantially more. Parameters still haven't changed but I did a PWC today to get Nitrite even lower as I couldn't tell if it was 2ppm or 5. It's now reading .25 ppm so I might add a little more ammonia today just to keep things moving. I reached out to a friend who also recently cycled her tank for an axolotl with the same method and hers took a little over three months....

Seems like patience is virtue here (which I severely lack lol) but I will keep plugging away unless anyone else has something to add!

 

[Jacky12]

I personally would never put an axie in such a crowded tank. The pair I purchased were in such a tank. I discarded all the decor. It was a 30 G high. Based upon my readings, they were half the expected size for their age. I moved them to a 40 G long breeder tank, where they underwent rapid catch up growth. These guys are nocturnal & will hide out all day. Once I had to touch one who ventured out of the hide during the day, because it looked dead. I think people who see more daytime activity are keeping the tanks too warm & well lit, even if the light is ambient.

These guys swim back at forth like fiends at night. They get to the end of the tank and do a backflip & swim back. Back & forth for hours. I observed this behavior many nights using an infrared camera linked to an app on my iPad. Fascinating to see, but got boring after a while. I may have the photo of the crowded tank that stunted their growth initially. Will post if I can find it.

Sorry the cycling is going so slowly. Does Dr. Tim have anything to say at his website?

 

[agor123]

I personally would never put an axie in such a crowded tank. The pair I purchased were in such a tank. I discarded all the decor. It was a 30 G high. Based upon my readings, they were half the expected size for their age. I moved them to a 40 G long breeder tank, where they underwent rapid catch up growth. These guys are nocturnal & will hide out all day. Once I had to touch one who ventured out of the hide during the day, because it looked dead. I think people who see more daytime activity are keeping the tanks too warm & well lit, even if the light is ambient.

These guys swim back at forth like fiends at night. They get to the end of the tank and do a backflip & swim back. Back & forth for hours. I observed this behavior many nights using an infrared camera linked to an app on my iPad. Fascinating to see, but got boring after a while. I may have the photo of the crowded tank that stunted their growth initially. Will post if I can find it.

Sorry the cycling is going so slowly. Does Dr. Tim have anything to say at his website?

Oh so interesting! Appreciate the insight! I know they like things to hide under so that's why I got plenty of "hiding" space but I can definitely take some out There's so much conflicting advice on youtube/google so it's hard to know right from wrong. I don't have any lights on the aquarium and only bought the heater for the cycling process but was obviously planning on taking it out once the cycle is complete and ready for the axolotl as they like the water quite cool. Dr. Tims does have a ton of resources on the cycling process but, just like everything else, people have conflicting opinions on his advice.

No worries about the cycling taking so long, luckily I've got time. Just getting excited about having a new friend

Re: sand for axolotls: Most places I've read is that sand is totally fine once they've hit 5+ inches. They are then big enough to pass sand if they accidentally ingest it. For juveniles, which is what I was planning on getting, they have a hard time passing sand and risk impaction. Once it's over 5 inches I will definitely be putting some in the tank.

 

[Jacky12]

Each of my axies has a plastic cave I purchased online. They tend to stay in one cave in my experience, but maybe I could try a few more. You can see them in these photos. They occasionally stay behind a few silk plants. I had Java ferns in there that didn’t make it. I keep the room dark days and of course no lights on the tank lid.
The lid is an egg crate panel from Loews. Supposedly it helps cool the tank by allowing more water evaporation.

I need to buy another and trim it better. It’s easy to cut. I cut holes in this one to submerge Lucky Bamboo & pothos roots in the water. That can remove nitrates from the water; I’ve read excellent science based articles on this subject. But my plants didn’t do well almost certainly because of the low light in the room.

 

[agor123]

Each of my axies has a plastic cave I purchased online. They tend to stay in one cave in my experience, but maybe I could try a few more. You can see them in these photos. They occasionally stay behind a few silk plants. I had Java ferns in there that didn’t make it. I keep the room dark days and of course no lights on the tank lid.
The lid is an egg crate panel from Loews. Supposedly it helps cool the tank by allowing more water evaporation.

I need to buy another and trim it better. It’s easy to cut. I cut holes in this one to submerge Lucky Bamboo & pothos roots in the water. That can remove nitrates from the water; I’ve read excellent science based articles on this subject. But my plants didn’t do well almost certainly because of the low light in the room.

I have the same lid for my tank! I saw a youtube video about it and thought it was genius. Going to be so great maintaining the cool water that axolotls need and allowing me direct some fans at the water to keep things cooled off

 

[agor123]

Hi All,

Just wanted to update everyone that I had that BEAUTIFUL blue nitrite test today!! Going to test one more time to make sure ammonia and nitrite drop to 0 in 24 hours but I'm SO PUMPED!!

In case anyone runs into this issue, I did a MASSIVE water change a few days ago- I'm talking like 90%. I let it sit overnight without doing anything and then added 2ppm ammonia the next morning. Ammonia cleared in 24 hours as usual but nitrites were around the 2-5ppm range this morning. Decided to check one more time after dinner (idk I just had a weird feeling I was going to get some good news lol) and sure enough, all the nitrite had dropped to 0

Don't know if it was a coincidence (pH was good, nitrite was within testable range when I did the big WC- so it wasn't due to elevated levels). Maybe worth a shot for some who have been stuck on the nitrite phase for a while to do a big WC and see if that helps.

Overall, my tank took about 60 days which is just slightly over the 8 week mark.

Appreciate everyone's help! Indeed, patience is key for a fishless cycle and hoping I don't have another one in my near future any time soon lol

 

[agor123]

Hi and welcome to the forum

If a cycle ever seems to stall for more than a few days, do a massive (90-100%) water change with dechlorinated water and add some more ammonia.

You can add sand to the bottom of an axolotl tank. If they swallow it, the grains of sand are small enough to pass through their digestive tract.

This seemed to really do the trick! Thank you SO MUCH!

 

[Jacky12]

Yay! Congrats!

 

[Colin_T]

Good stuff, now to go find your new inhabitants

The test kits do make some nice colours sometimes, just a pity some of the colours they make mean the water is bad. I used to set up phials of water and add pH indicator to each of them, then sprinkle different things in the phials and watch the colours change. Those were the days, mad scientist playing with bromothymol blue and bicarb