Fishless Cycling For Dummies

[Deckape]

At least you didn't put ammonia in your eyes. I am not sure of the chemicals in the contact lens solution but a few drops in the tank shouldn't hurt that much and you realized the mistake quickly. I hope all turns out well. Keep us informed if you can. Thanks Eco and have a good day

 

[Deckape]

Experience is mistakes made from which lessons are learned. That's my motto. Don't ever stop earning experience.

 

[barterking85]

i dont think it will harm much eco good move on the pwc though give it another week two at the most and you will be ready to rock

 

[straick]

Quick question for you, why is it that all the LFS's and pet stores all say that you need to have fish to cycle a tank? When I asked one if I could have some of their used filter media(for the bacteria), they said that they use them until they fall apart(which makes sense), but said that I should change the one on my tank regularly. What makes it so different for them to do one thing, yet they say I should do the complete opposite?

No matter what they say though, I am currently doing a fishless cycle on my tank. I want my little friends to be happy when they do come home. I actually avoid looking at the fish in the stores so that I don't go and get any right now, as much as I might want to.

 

[krap101]

Quick question for you, why is it that all the LFS's and pet stores all say that you need to have fish to cycle a tank? When I asked one if I could have some of their used filter media(for the bacteria), they said that they use them until they fall apart(which makes sense), but said that I should change the one on my tank regularly. What makes it so different for them to do one thing, yet they say I should do the complete opposite?

No matter what they say though, I am currently doing a fishless cycle on my tank. I want my little friends to be happy when they do come home. I actually avoid looking at the fish in the stores so that I don't go and get any right now, as much as I might want to.

Most pet stores only care about making money. The more fish you kill, the more money they make in items. I think pet stores don't make much money on the fish, but on the filters, conditions etc, is where the money is. The less knowledgeable the consumer, the more money wasted on gimmicks and replacements. On the other hand, without good money management, you'd have a much smaller selection, which is where you have to draw the line - survival/profit vs expanding the hobby etc.

 

[straick]

Ahh, now I see.
Here's the fun one, is there any source of the bacteria that I can use to help seed my tank? I don't anyone who has a fish tank, except the pet stores and lfs, and they laughed when I asked if I could have or buy some of there used filter material.
By the way, I was in wally world and was looking to get some fake plants(they have supplies, but no fish now, and the tank just looked too bare with nothing in it). While I was there, another person was looking for new filters, but he couldn't remember which size of filter he had. Asked him why he was looking to replace it, and he told me that he does that every few weeks. Referred him to here to look up cycling a tank, and told him that, at least from what I know, you should only replace your filter when it's falling apart(just like the pet store does).

 

[krap101]

Seeding filters speeds up the process but isn't necessary. I think without seeding it should take around 3-4 weeks. With seeding it shaves that down to 1 or 2.

The good thing about canister filters and some power filters with other media, is that most of your bacteria is on other things (ceramic rings, bioballs etc), so it won't affect your tank much when you change stuff out.

 

[straick]

True about the ceramic rings and bioballs, but he was looking at the replacement filters for the HOB filters, and he said that he only has the one filter in it(a floss pouch that has carbon inside), so if he were to change it out, he would have removed most of his bacteria(I'm learning).

 

[eco23]

Unfortunately, it seems many LFS owners are just ignorant when it comes to certain things.

I went to one today (not a big chain, just a local store) and the lady who has owned it for 15 years had never heard of fishless cycling. She thought it was ridiculous. She said "I would never put ammonia into a fish tank!" and I told her that's exactly what she's doing by adding fish, except when you do it fishless with pure ammonia it's 10x faster and you're not sacrificing or torturing fish to get your tank cycled.

I then asked her about certain fish she had in the store and she told me that if I put tetras into my tank they would die immediately since it's not an established tank. At this point I was flabbergasted and tried to explain how fishless cycling prepares the tank to handle a higher bioload than traditional cycling and she still proceeded to tell me that I needed to first add a few "hardy fish" to help get things going.

I was seriously on the verge of yelling when my wife told me just to let it go. On my way out of the store I told her to find a computer, go to google and type "fishless cycling" and maybe she could learn something.

The really sad thing is that this store is considered one of the better ones in the area.

 

[barterking85]

Quick question for you, why is it that all the LFS's and pet stores all say that you need to have fish to cycle a tank? When I asked one if I could have some of their used filter media(for the bacteria), they said that they use them until they fall apart(which makes sense), but said that I should change the one on my tank regularly. What makes it so different for them to do one thing, yet they say I should do the complete opposite?

No matter what they say though, I am currently doing a fishless cycle on my tank. I want my little friends to be happy when they do come home. I actually avoid looking at the fish in the stores so that I don't go and get any right now, as much as I might want to.

cause they want money witch they get by telling you you need fish to cycle your tank and they dont want to give you their media so you will buy their new media you got to remember they are there to make money your best bet is to find a local mom and pop style store or just ask a quaestion on this site

 

[barterking85]

Unfortunately, it seems many LFS owners are just ignorant when it comes to certain things.

I went to one today (not a big chain, just a local store) and the lady who has owned it for 15 years had never heard of fishless cycling. She thought it was ridiculous. She said "I would never put ammonia into a fish tank!" and I told her that's exactly what she's doing by adding fish, except when you do it fishless with pure ammonia it's 10x faster and you're not sacrificing or torturing fish to get your tank cycled.

I then asked her about certain fish she had in the store and she told me that if I put tetras into my tank they would die immediately since it's not an established tank. At this point I was flabbergasted and tried to explain how fishless cycling prepares the tank to handle a higher bioload than traditional cycling and she still proceeded to tell me that I needed to first add a few "hardy fish" to help get things going.

I was seriously on the verge of yelling when my wife told me just to let it go. On my way out of the store I told her to find a computer, go to google and type "fishless cycling" and maybe she could learn something.

The really sad thing is that this store is considered one of the better ones in the area.

pain and simple she has heard of it but she is not making money that way fishles is the way to go and almost anyone here will tell you that

 

[straick]

That makes sense.
Doing a fishless cycle here, and I noticed a slight(very slight, but still there) drop in ammonia today. Decided to go ahead and test Nitrite level, and ended up testing nitrate instead(misread the test name, but did it correctly). Caught the mistake and tested nitrite as well(which I wanted to test originally). What I don't get, my ammonia showed a slight drop, nitrites are still 0, but I have a hint of nitrates right now. I tested my tap water after letting some sit overnight, and all I get a reading for on it is ammonia, and very slight. How am I starting to get nitrates, but no nitrites? I thought that you would see the nitrites at least come up some before you saw any nitrates. Any ideas?
I did add some fake plants last night after thoroughly rinsing them in hot running water and then letting them air dry(even though there aren't any fish yet, I don't want any chlorine killing off the bacteria) if that makes a difference.

P.S. I'm using the API master freshwater kit and have the tank set right at 80.

 

[eco23]

That makes sense.
Doing a fishless cycle here, and I noticed a slight(very slight, but still there) drop in ammonia today. Decided to go ahead and test Nitrite level, and ended up testing nitrate instead(misread the test name, but did it correctly). Caught the mistake and tested nitrite as well(which I wanted to test originally). What I don't get, my ammonia showed a slight drop, nitrites are still 0, but I have a hint of nitrates right now. I tested my tap water after letting some sit overnight, and all I get a reading for on it is ammonia, and very slight. How am I starting to get nitrates, but no nitrites? I thought that you would see the nitrites at least come up some before you saw any nitrates. Any ideas?
I did add some fake plants last night after thoroughly rinsing them in hot running water and then letting them air dry(even though there aren't any fish yet, I don't want any chlorine killing off the bacteria) if that makes a difference.

P.S. I'm using the API master freshwater kit and have the tank set right at 80.

It's possible you have nitrAtes in your tap water. If the ammonia level is dropping that means you've got some good bacteria eating it up. It took me a few days to see any nitrItes to show up after my ammonia started going down. Seems like you're on the right path, just test the water right out of the tap for nitrAtes. I know you tested the tap water before, but levels of chems in tap water can change day to day, hour to hour whether you're on city water or well water.

 

[eco23]

I've also got a question about my own cycle if someone can help me out. My nitrItes and nitrAtes are absolutely through the roof.

My tank is taking 4ppm of ammonia and reducing it to 0 in under 24 hours. I've read that if nitrItes and nitrAtes are TOO high it can stall your cycle and you can do a 50% PWC that wont effect the cycle.

My question is what can I use to condition the water when I do the PWC? If I use Prime it's going to take out all the ammonia and nitrItes. I can obviously add more ammonia, but if I neutralize the nitrItes that's gonna slow the bacteria that's converting nitrItes to nitrAtes. I need to take out the chlorine before I add water back in (with my new Python that arrives tomorrow!) but I'm wondering if I need to run out and buy a chem that takes out chlorine/chloramines, but leaves the ammonia and nitrItes alone?

 

[straick]

eco23, I think that Prime actually converts the ammonia and nitrites slightly to make it non toxic/less toxic to fish, while still leaving it available for the bacteria. Still learning, but I read something to that effect somewhere(I've read so much at this point, that I can't remember where I read what, but I remember the information). As far as the PWC goes, I've read the same thing.

I actually tested my tap water when I filled the tank(that's where the water that I left sitting came from). When I tested it then, it was amonnia between 0 and .25, nitrites 0, and nitrates 0. Tested it for 2 reasons, one was to get some practice with the kit(just got it and wanted to try it out also), and the second was to give me an idea as to what my tap water was like for my own reference down the road. Still wondering where the nitrates came from.
I did take a peak at my filter media, and the floss type part of it is getting covered in some sort of brown stuff(pulled the media up to look, and then put it right back in, no rinse or anything). I'm guessing that's the bacteria starting to colonize the filter.

 

[eco23]

I really don't know for sure, but I don't know that the bacteria is visible...maybe.

Are you keeping your light off during the cycle? I guess the brown stuff could be algae starting to grow. During a cycle the tank is the perfect condition for algae to take over.

Also, I'd test your tap water a few days over a period to see if it fluctuates in nitrAte levels. I work for a water purification company and you'd be shocked how much levels of things change in tap water over the course of several days.

If it isn't the tap water putting nitrAtes in the water, it is definitely weird that they're showing up before nitrItes. Is your test solution new? You're using liquid drops and not strips, right? Sorry if you already stated that, I didn't see.

 

[straick]

Currently, the only light for the tank is the light in the room. The brown stuff is actually in the filter, which that area is completely dark. Still have to get a light hood for the tank. Right now I'm using some plexi that I cut to size for a lid to keep the bubbles from the airstone from getting all over everything, as well as to keep evaporation down, which helps keep the temp more stable.
Test solutions were bought this past weekend, API Freshwater master kit(hard to find around here).
I thought it was weird too, which is why I posted it.

 

[Kat1103]

I'm fishless cycling too. I'm on day 12. my ammonia has dropped to 1.0ppm and my nitrite has raised to 2.0ppm and nitrates are reading between 0-5ppm. I have not done any water changes as I don't want to disturb anything. my tank is 55 gallons. I've been using fish food and gravel from an old tank. I'm wondering how much food or whatever I should add and how much to keep the cycling going and to speed it up?? Couldn't find proper ammonia around here. Any help is appreciated!

 

[eco23]

Unfortunately, I think using fish food or shrimp for cycling just takes some experimentation to get the right balance. I'm sure people can respond with the amount they used but I'd bet different foods decay at different rates and release differing amounts of ammonia.

Too bad you couldn't find pure ammonia as it's the easiest way to control the amounts. Did you call around to the hardware stores in your area? I found mine at a True Value and I think some pharmacies carry it too.

If you can't find any, I'd just keep experimenting to try and figure out how you can keep the ammonia around 4ppm. Sorry I couldn't be much help.

 

[eco23]

I've also never understood how fish food can be super effective when you get to the point where the bacteria is gobbling it up quickly. Seems to me like you'd need to add an awful lot to keep the ammonia to nitrIte bacteria fed. I'm at the point in my cycle where my tank is taking 4ppm of ammonia down to 0ppm in under 24 hours. Maybe someone with more expertise using fish food can explain?