Foam?

[RDouglas50]

The tap water comes from a well, smacked between two giant slabs of limestone. From the tap, akalinity is above 300 (unmeasurable), ph is well above 8.6, and hardness is around 300gh (maybe higher, idk). Everything seems pretty dismal about the lack of water quality, but I keep making the joke about not having to worry about chlorine

 

[eco23]

The tap water comes from a well, smacked between two giant slabs of limestone. From the tap, akalinity is above 300 (unmeasurable), ph is well above 8.6, and hardness is around 300gh (maybe higher, idk). Everything seems pretty dismal about the lack of water quality, but I keep making the joke about not having to worry about chlorine

There still might be a disconnect...so, you're trying to lower the alkalinity by doing a fishless cycle? (Sorry if I'm still not understanding).

While technically that may happen, the second you do a water change you restore all of the buffers, alkalinity and natural pH of the tap water back into the aquarium. Since once the tank is cycled, established and stocked... 25% weekly water changes are part of your maintenance...the tap water and aquarium water will always be near identical.

The only real option for lowering the alkalinity / hardness of your water is by using purification like reverse osmosis. Normally this is only for saltwater hobbyists since most freshwater fish can adapt to a wide range of water conditions as long as it is stable. If you did choose to use purified water...make sure you do your research because pure water alone is not suitable for an aquarium. Minerals and electrolytes must be added back in before using it in your fish tank.

Bettas are very tough fish, and I'd be surprised if they didn't still do well even in hard water. The key is to acclimate them very slowly to the new water when they are introduced. I personally drip-acclimate all my new fish. There's some great videos on YouTube about how to do it.

All that said, I still always advise fishless cycling to prepare any tank for fish unless you have tons of seeded media which is capable of handling your bio-load.

 

[RDouglas50]

There still might be a disconnect...so, you're trying to lower the alkalinity by doing a fishless cycle? (Sorry if I'm still not understanding).

While technically that may happen, the second you do a water change you restore all of the buffers, alkalinity and natural pH of the tap water back into the aquarium. Since once the tank is cycled, established and stocked... 25% weekly water changes are part of your maintenance...the tap water and aquarium water will always be near identical.

The only real option for lowering the alkalinity / hardness of your water is by using purification like reverse osmosis. Normally this is only for saltwater hobbyists since most freshwater fish can adapt to a wide range of water conditions as long as it is stable. If you did choose to use purified water...make sure you do your research because pure water alone is not suitable for an aquarium. Minerals and electrolytes must be added back in before using it in your fish tank.

Bettas are very tough fish, and I'd be surprised if they didn't still do well even in hard water. The key is to acclimate them very slowly to the new water when they are introduced. I personally drip-acclimate all my new fish. There's some great videos on YouTube about how to do it.

All that said, I still always advise fishless cycling to prepare any tank for fish unless you have tons of seeded media which is capable of handling your bio-load.

That's exactly what I was trying to do.

As far as the reverse osmosis, is that done by purchasing purified water? Or is there a website that can explain this?

 

[eco23]

That's exactly what I was trying to do.

As far as the reverse osmosis, is that done by purchasing purified water? Or is there a website that can explain this?

Here's a decent explanation of RO and how it works. Just remember it's not as simple as purifying the water and adding it into the tank. There are additives which need to be added to the water after it is purified. You could either purchase your own RO unit, or I believe some fish stores sell it at their stores.

I would do more research of what alkalinity Bettas are capable of thriving in. Almost all freshwater fish can be happy in any pH unless it is at extreme levels. Stability is what's important. However, if the pH / alkalinity levels really are literally off the charts...purification may be worth looking into. Make sure you are using a quality liquid test kit...not strips to get your results.

A tank will also still need to be cycled regardless of the water source.

http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/pic/article.cfm?acatid=421&aid=842

 

[RDouglas50]

I saw some tabs at petco the other day, almost like alka-seltzer tab, that dechlorinates and adds essential minerals to the water, could I feasibly use something like that in distilled water for the same desired effect?

Also do you think having better quality water will also clear up the foam problem i have?

Great advice thank you.

 

[eco23]

I saw some tabs at petco the other day, almost like alka-seltzer tab, that dechlorinates and adds essential minerals to the water, could I feasibly use something like that in distilled water for the same desired effect?

Also do you think having better quality water will also clear up the foam problem i have?

Great advice thank you.

I've got no clue about the foam...I guess it could be from the additive you used that I'm unfamiliar with (I really suggest against using any additives other than water conditioner). By the way, even though you're on a well...using a dechlorinator / water conditioner like Seachem Prime is still a good idea to neutralize other things found in well water.

I don't trust products like those tabs. If you're going to use additives with purified water, I'd use a quality product like Seachem or Kent's. The link I included before had a hyper-link which shows their different freshwater additives-
http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.c...lizing-water-conditioners/ps/c/3578/4395/4410

The danger with using any type of product which alters water chemistry is that it creates an unstable environment for your fish if not prepared correctly before the water is ever added to the tank. Every fish will always prefer stable water (even if it is not considered "ideal"), as opposed to fluctuations which can be very harmful to them.

Before even considering RO or additives...I'd make sure you are testing your water with a quality liquid test kit like an API Master Kit to ensure your results are accurate. Then I'd do more research and be certain it's unsuitable for Bettas. Again, most fish can adapt to virtually any pH level as long as it is stable.

 

[RDouglas50]

Thank you for all the advice and links, I'm sure it'll all help once I get a chance to process all this information, lol. It's a lot to take in, of course, I have some time before my tank cycles to study and figure out my game plan.

 

[eco23]

Thank you for all the advice and links, I'm sure it'll all help once I get a chance to process all this information, lol. It's a lot to take in, of course, I have some time before my tank cycles to study and figure out my game plan.

Happy to help . Feel free to ask any other questions you think of about anything including your cycle. Keep us posted

 

[JacksonJigsaw]

Allot of the times just having a stable PH is better than having the perfect PH. The water from my tap is pretty high, but all my amazon fish that "require" a low PH are doing fine. I Did add Driftwood and oakleaves to help lower it naturally. For along time i was obssesed with getting the perfect PH but could never get it to drop. Fish are highly adaptable and most captive bred fish are the spawn of many generations of having a PH that is diffrent from their natural habbitat. Good luck to you.

 

[BlackMagic]

not foam, its a betta nest. bubble nest ...

 

[JacksonJigsaw]

The betta isn't in the tank yet.

 

[RDouglas50]

Update: foam's still there, I didn't do any water changes after dosing the tank with the clear ammonia. Lost my job (I have another lined out) so all expendable funds right now are on lockdown. I was wondering if I could cycle my tank using the tap water I have, knowing how terrible the water quality is.

My thought process is that by doing massive 75%pwc I can bring the ammo dose back down to the 1ppm that Eco suggested and flush out the water conditioner that I used that I think is causing the foaming. I'm just wondering about when I'm ready to add the fish to the aquarium, if I can do multiple massive pcw's with ro/di water (when I can afford the filter) without killing all the bb

 

[eco23]

Cycling the tank with your tap water is perfect...no problems there. Switching water sources shouldn't hurt either (if it ends up being necessary).

As for the product you used...is it really called Betta Start? Is it possibly Tetra SafeStart?

Here's what I would try...scoop out a bit of water from the tank into a container with a cover and shake the heck out of it. If it foams and the bubbles stay there...that may be an issue. If it basically just creates air bubbles that go away after a few seconds I wouldn't worry too much.

Another thought...cycling at 1ppm is great for a single Betta...but since the tank is a 10 gallon you may actually be able to add a few carefully selected fish in there along with him like Neon Tetras or snails (shrimp are iffy with Bettas). If you decided you might like to have some company in the tank with him...keeping the ammonia at 4ppm isn't a bad idea.

 

[RDouglas50]

Cycling the tank with your tap water is perfect...no problems there. Switching water sources shouldn't hurt either (if it ends up being necessary).

As for the product you used...is it really called Betta Start? Is it possibly Tetra SafeStart?

Here's what I would try...scoop out a bit of water from the tank into a container with a cover and shake the heck out of it. If it foams and the bubbles stay there...that may be an issue. If it basically just creates air bubbles that go away after a few seconds I wouldn't worry too much.

Another thought...cycling at 1ppm is great for a single Betta...but since the tank is a 10 gallon you may actually be able to add a few carefully selected fish in there along with him like Neon Tetras or snails (shrimp are iffy with Bettas). If you decided you might like to have some company in the tank with him...keeping the ammonia at 4ppm isn't a bad idea.

It does bubble whenever I test the ammonia. I did buy an API ammo liquid test kit because the test strips I bought doesn't have an ammo reading on it... I didn't notice I guess because it is only 5mL of water. I'll try on a larger scale though. As far as other fish in the tank, I was thinking about putting some neon tetras in there, but for now, it would just be the betta. I'll get a picture of the bottle of water conditioner that I'm using, I'm sure that'll shed some light at the problem

 

[jeffp]

I'm guessing it's betta safe, which is just a conditioner

 

[RDouglas50]

And we have foam... Yay. Don't worry the Gatorade bottle was clean, and even if it wasn't, I didn't even put the water back into the aquarium. I also attached a bottle of the conditioner I used

 

[eco23]

And we have foam... Yay. Don't worry the Gatorade bottle was clean, and even if it wasn't, I didn't even put the water back into the aquarium. I also attached a bottle of the conditioner I used

Ummm.......that looks worrisome to me, but I'm not familiar with the Betta Safe product. Did you use any soaps when you cleaned the tank?

Personally I'd shoot Tetra an email (I think they've got a help # you can call too) and ask if the product could be related.

 

[RDouglas50]

I think there may have been soap in it at one point in time...

It did that too me a couple weeks ago, so I completely drained the tank, replaced the sand, the filter cartridge, and rinsed everything else in scalding hot water. Everything was soaked in vinegar for a couple of hours, scrubbed with a brand new, soft bristled toothbrush, and soaked for another hour, then took another bath in scalding hot water.

If there was any soap, it would be gone, right? If not, then I may just scrap everything and start anew with a larger tank

 

[eco23]

I think there may have been soap in it at one point in time...

It did that too me a couple weeks ago, so I completely drained the tank, replaced the sand, the filter cartridge, and rinsed everything else in scalding hot water. Everything was soaked in vinegar for a couple of hours, scrubbed with a brand new, soft bristled toothbrush, and soaked for another hour, then took another bath in scalding hot water.

If there was any soap, it would be gone, right? If not, then I may just scrap everything and start anew with a larger tank

I think I'd still shoot Tetra an email or a phone call and see if it's related.

I'd assume the soap would be gone after 2 thorough rinses...but I guess you never know. Using detergent is a big no-no, but I actually saw a really interesting post about how the beneficial bacteria would suffer much more than fish...so basically if you can establish a stable bio-filter...it shows there's really not an issue.

However...if you need a good excuse to give your significant other in order to go pick up a bigger tank...this might be a good one, haha. Just pick up a different brand of conditioner in case that actually was the cause

 

[RDouglas50]

I think I'd still shoot Tetra an email or a phone call and see if it's related.

I'd assume the soap would be gone after 2 thorough rinses...but I guess you never know. Using detergent is a big no-no, but I actually saw a really interesting post about how the beneficial bacteria would suffer much more than fish...so basically if you can establish a stable bio-filter...it shows there's really not an issue.

However...if you need a good excuse to give your significant other in order to go pick up a bigger tank...this might be a good one, haha. Just pick up a different brand of conditioner in case that actually was the cause

Good Point

I'm going to try the 75%pcw without the water conditioner. There's no chlorine in my tap, so I'm mostly using it as a slime coat