Freshwater Beginner

[Cjazinski]

Hello all, I have a 20 gal saltwater and kept fish alive no problem. My parents had a spare 30 gal tank that the previously had freshwater fish in. I decided to set it up. they had something that filtered from the bottom, i layed the plastic filter things down then poured rocks (blue looking pebles which were in tank before) I filled up the tank and added tap conditionar. I haven't placed the air pump on yet (30-80gal ) I'm waiting to replace the carbon looking things that attach to the bottom plastic under gravel thing. Right now i do have a hang on the back bio wheel filter running to kinda clean the water. Now my question is what do i do from here. I'm planning on buying the carbon (i'm assuming) things, then i'll run the air pump to it and get that going, should i leave the hang on the back filter and if so for how long it is only going to be used on this tank. I havn't put the top of the tank on yet thinking maybe it will help gases exchange could be wrong though. what am i looking for now, and what steps should i take. thanks for the help

 

[Jchillin]

IMHO, you don't need the UGF. It leads to more problems than you need. The HOB should be enough to take care of your filtering needs.

 

[Cjazinski]

Running both filter will not hurt anything though right?

 

[dax29]

running both

I run a UGF and 2 HOBs in my 29 gallon. It won't hurt. I'm just not sure how much the UGF helps and I think it is going to be a big mess when I get rid of it and switch to a sand substrate. The HOB filters are powerful, effective, and easy to maintain.

 

[Cjazinski]

Nice, how long does a 'cycle' take and what am i looking for in this cycle. oh and at what temp should the water be about 78? or so?

 

[Jchillin]

You can read about the "Nitrogen Cycle" in the Ariticles section. What it is (very simplied form):

1. Beneficial bacteria consume ammonia and produce nitrite
2. Another form of beneficial bacteria consumes nitrite and produces nitrate

This takes quite some time (4-6) weeks. During that time, if you have fish, the levels of NH3, NO2 and NO3 can get quite toxic to your fish. Regular PWC's are necessary to keep these toxic levels down.

HTH

 

[Meredith]

Just personal choice, but I would also take out the under gravel filter. They can get messy. If you do keep the ugf, I would still use the hob. You can put the top on the aquarium. You should have enough gas exchange with the water movement from the hob. Like Dax said ...The HOB filters are powerful, effective, and easy to maintain.

 

[Cjazinski]

Thanks guys. What is do you guys mean about the UGF being messy? and at what tempture should i keep it at. thanks.

 

[Guest]

UGF are a pain, i would take it out before you add any fish, it mostly just gets clogged up and its a pain to clean the gravel. A power filter or canister filter should do the job just fine

 

[extremenewb]

UGF's maintenance can get annoying. IMO, the added maintenance of the UGF is not worth the effort, relative to the added filtration. The HOB will suffice (and do well).

Main thing for now: decide on substrate (if you haven't put it in already), plug in everything, and dump in an ammonia source to get the cycle running (eg raw shrimp). The cycling does take a while, so you might as well get it started. Then research what you have to do next (ie cycling - plenty of articles online)

And for temp, it's been a while since I cycled or taken a bio class, but since I'm guessing you're doing fishless, pick a temp on the higher side to help the bacteria grow (from common sense, I think a highish temp)

 

[Meredith]

If you keep the temp around 78, that should be fine. When you are using a ugf, all the food that falls to the bottom, and all the fishy poo gets sucked down into ugf. Some of it you can remove by using a gravel vac, but not all of it. So basically you keep circulating the water your fish live in over the detritus again and again. And if you ever want to remove it, it will throw all sorts of yuck into the water. At least with a hob you can remove the filter media and rinse away the icky stuff.

 

[fishyrican]

In the years I have been keeping fish, one of the topics that seems to bring out some determined opinions is the use of UGF's. When I first started in the hobby, I was told that a UGF was an absolute necessity. Over the years, I have learned more about filtration and have dreaded the added maintenance of a UGF. Now, all my tanks have either HOB or canister filters.

There are a lot of articles on the web that discuss this issue. This one is almost 20 years old, but has good info IMO: http://www.bestfish.com/ug.html. It also has a related update that is about 8 years old. The link to the update is on the bottom of the first page.

HTH

 

[Cjazinski]

well in order for me to take off the UGF i would have to remove the gravel. I have feeding shrimp that i use for my SW tank will that work to get the cycle going? i've set the temp up but still the water is somewhat cold. thanks

 

[fishyrican]

Before you remove the UGF, make sure your other filter has been running long enough to accumulate a bacterial culture. To remove the UGF, first see how much mulm (gunk) is in the UGF. Perform a PWC and vacuum the gravel as best as you can. Slowly stir up the rocks and see what comes up. If the material released is foul smelling (rotten egg-like), or very dark, there may be anaerobic bacteria in the gravel, which release toxins into the water. In that case, it will just be better to remove the fish before you remove the UGF.

Otherwise, just slowly move the gravel to the front or side of the tank and slowly pull up on the opposite side of the gravel. In effect, you are trying to "slide" the UGF out from under the rocks. Of course, keep an eye on the fish, since you don't want to injure them.

After that, rearrange the gravel. Since you have disturbed the biological filtration culture, continue to do PWCs and test your water since it may go through a mini cycle again.

HTH

BTW, I am always open to correction/instruction, so if anyone has either, please be sure to post!

 

[Cjazinski]

That seems like it's more difficult then just leaving the UGF. I saw that link, but my UGF isn't really proving to be messy yet. What about them actually is so messy? just the maintance or the way the gravel sits on the bottom.? Thanks

 

[mattrox]

The underside of them gets dirty....If you can move the gravel away from the uplift tube then remove it, you can get a small tube into it to suck out the gunk. Some people use a python. I think just plain of clear plastic tube from the hardware store, small enough to fit in the uplift tube hole is better. It will vacuum all the detritus out.

I have just grabbed the plate and lifted it out in the past. (After cleaning under it).

 

[dr_girlfriend]

ummm....just make it reverse flow. UGF are very efficient at bio filtration, but depending on what kind of fish you are going to keep, you will probably want use the hob for chemical and mechanical filtration. If you want to leave it in, just make it reverse flow. That way it won't draw particulates under the plate.

 

[Cjazinski]

How can i make it reverse flowing? Thanks

 

[fishyrican]

You can place a reversible powerhead on the uplift tube. The powerhead will pull the water through a pre-filter, down the uplift tube and up through the gravel. Here is an example: http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=27231;category_id=3865

There are many kinds, I just cite that as an example. You want to use a pre-filter or sponge if necessary so nothing gets drawn into the impeller.