Freshwater cycling journal

[CaptainMako]

More or less to keep track of things for my own sake, and for those that understand the process better than I to critique and guide me.




Specifications

• 29 Gallon freshwater tank
• Six dalmatian mollies (fish-in cycling, attempting to keep fish healthy)
• Mollies currently afflicted with fungus and pop eye as a result of bad water conditions.
• Chemicals in use: Prime, API Melafix and API Pimafix together
• Equipment: API Freshwater Master Test Kit
• Tank has been up for a while, could be anywhere in the cycling process
• Tap water ammonia level (untreated): Under 0.25 ppm

Personal instructions
Test ammonia and nitrites daily, levels must remain below 0.25 ppm to achieve health in fish and nutrition for the bacterial colony. Nitrate levels will be checked later on.

PWC frequency and volume will be determined by daily readings.

Continue testing and PWC's until both ammonia and nitrite levels consistently read zero, cycling is then finished.

Should fish die in the process of cycling, fishless cycling will be undertaken and the routine will continue as normal.

Attempting to treat fish for slight fungal growths, pop eye and torn tail fins. Pimafix treats fungus and infections, melafix treats slight fungus and mainly physical damage. API claims neither chemicals will have an effect on the biological filter. Dosages will be done after any water changes that day for maximum effect.

Carbon filter will be emptied during the cycling process. Medication requires carbon be absent to work.

Single neon blue dwarf gourami and a school of either sunset fire platys or red wag swordtails expected to be added after the process of cycling is finished and signs of disease are gone as well.

pH and High range pH will be centered after the tank is cycled and settled down.

May add more here as time progresses.

 

[eco23]

I posted this on the other thread we've talking on, but I wanted to make sure you see it here. I don't understand the reasoning behind taking out the filter so bacteria doesn't grow on it. You want as much bacteria in there as possible to help with the ammonia spikes. If you did that you'd be losing the bacteria that is already on the cartridge which would only compound the problem. The bacteria won't really be on the carbon itself, but it's all over the filter the carbon is inside of. Anything you remove right now that has bacteria on it will only make the ammonia spikes worse. Like I said in the other thread, cut a slit in the side, shake the carbon into the trash because you don't want it in there during medicating, and put the empty cartridge back in so you don't lose the bacteria that is on it.

 

[dskidmore]

Don't worry about the pH. The fish can adjust to most normal tap conditions, and then they have to adjust once instead of every time you muck with chemicals trying to change it.

Please read about QT before adding more fish to this mix. I sent you a link before.

Your cycling plan looks good. Let us know when you get the nitrite test done, and if it's low, the nitrate results.

 

[dskidmore]

I don't understand the reasoning behind taking out the filter so bacteria doesn't grow on it.

A) He's medicating, and carbon can have a poor effect on medications. B) The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling recomends no carbon during a cycle which is what I believe he is going by.

If he's been cycling with carbon and removes it, it could cause an ammonia spike. I would remove only half the carbon at first if going this route. When I used a carbon cartridge filter, I would only change half the carbon each time. Even if using a new floss bag instead of rinsing the old one, I would put half the old carbon in it.

 

[CaptainMako]

From what I am gathering of advice from everyone, it seems the best option would be to just empty the carbon out of the filter but leave it there. Then there are no issues with the medication. I need to purchase free cut filter carbon filter media instead, so that when I change the carbon out after the cycle is finished, I can just let the bacteria transfer to the new carbon media wad before I take the old one out.
I may be stuck with cartridges for a while though, what should I do?
I'm letting the cartridge dry before cutting it open, I can't seem to make any kind of cut in this cottony material that will let me empty the carbon out. Or was that a mistake, ugh.
Also waiting for the test tubes to try before testing for the first time.

 

[eco23]

A) He's medicating, and carbon can have a poor effect on medications. B) The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling recomends no carbon during a cycle which is what I believe he is going by.

If he's been cycling with carbon and removes it, it could cause an ammonia spike. I would remove only half the carbon at first if going this route. When I used a carbon cartridge filter, I would only change half the carbon each time. Even if using a new floss bag instead of rinsing the old one, I would put half the old carbon in it.

First...I wrote the guide you're referencing, lol. Second, if you saw, I told him / her to cut out the carbon and put the actual filter back in. Absolute minimal amounts of bacteria grow on the actual carbon itself, but tons on the cartridge it's contained in.

 

[eco23]

From what I am gathering of advice from everyone, it seems the best option would be to just empty the carbon out of the filter but leave it there. Then there are no issues with the medication. I need to purchase free cut filter carbon filter media instead, so that when I change the carbon out after the cycle is finished, I can just let the bacteria transfer to the new carbon media wad before I take the old one out.
I may be stuck with cartridges for a while though, what should I do?
I'm letting the cartridge dry before cutting it open, I can't seem to make any kind of cut in this cottony material that will let me empty the carbon out. Or was that a mistake, ugh.
Also waiting for the test tubes to try before testing for the first time.

You're doing fine, just find a sharper pair of scissors, it'll go right through it. Also, it's not carbon filter media you want in the future...just normal filter floss or sponge material to catch the debris.

 

[dskidmore]

You probably have a supply of these things around. It's fine to keep using them, but remove the carbon, and maybe pack some extras around it for more filtration surface area. some filters are more or less flexible about this. When the run out, then get the bulk floss or sponges to replace.

 

[CaptainMako]

Test 1

May 6th, 2011

• These readings were taken before any water changes today and before the tank's dose of Pimafix. Melafix has not been started yet, but will start tonight.
• pH, High range pH and nitrates tested out of curiousity.

Ammonia: Appears to be a little over 0.25 ppm
Nitrites: 0.50 ppm
Nitrates: About 40.0 ppm
pH: Greater than 7.6 ppm
High range pH: Between 8.0 and 8.2 ppm

Action to be taken: Water change followed by dosage of Pimafix and Melafix approximate to the water changed. Empty carbon from cartridge.

 

[dskidmore]

Looks like you're about halfway through your cycle? Nitrites could be on the way up or down, I expect they would peak higher than that. Nitrate reading says you've got some of all the necessary bacteria.

Test your tap water as well and post those results? This only needs to be done once unless you start seeing problems out of the blue after a water change.

 

[CaptainMako]

The untreated tapwater ammonia levels are at my very first post in the thread, under specifications I think.
So I should just cut through the cartridge any way I can to get the carbon out, empty it and put it back in? Then once I get some loose floss or something just put it in next to it for a while so it gets bacteria?
I will do a water change once I clean all of this stuff up, and dose after.

 

[eco23]

The untreated tapwater ammonia levels are at my very first post in the thread, under specifications I think.
So I should just cut through the cartridge any way I can to get the carbon out, empty it and put it back in? Then once I get some loose floss or something just put it in next to it for a while so it gets bacteria?
I will do a water change once I clean all of this stuff up, and dose after.

Correct. The other poster was right that you can just continue cutting carbon out of the cartridges and using them until you run out...then buy the rolled up media. But yeah, stick the new one in next to the old one to seed it and never throw away a filter until it is absolutely falling apart.

 

[CaptainMako]

The bacteria hasn't died off somehow by being out of the water has it?
And I can hack at this thing any way I can just to get the carbon out?

 

[eco23]

The bacteria hasn't died off somehow by being out of the water has it?
And I can hack at this thing any way I can just to get the carbon out?

Keep dipping it into the tank if you need to keep it from drying out until you get the carbon out. The first time I cut one of the cartridges it was a nightmare at first, then I went and grabbed another pair of scissors from the kitchen and it went through it like butter.

 

[CaptainMako]

Okay, emptied out the catridge. I will clean all of this stuff up and then do a water change.
what volume would you guys recommend based on the readings I have given you?

 

[CaptainMako]

Update.
So I took my worries about using so little Prime (I'm used to using much more API brand dechlorinator) to the chatrooms and got some advice. 1 drop covers about 1 gallon, approximately what my pitcher I use for PWC's holds. I'll use two drops just to make me feel better.
I did a 60% water change last night, and I have yet to take my readings.

The fish are improving greatly with very little medication, but I won't stop the regiment just yet.
I'll be back with today's readings later on.

 

[eco23]

Update.
So I took my worries about using so little Prime (I'm used to using much more API brand dechlorinator) to the chatrooms and got some advice. 1 drop covers about 1 gallon, approximately what my pitcher I use for PWC's holds. I'll use two drops just to make me feel better.
I did a 60% water change last night, and I have yet to take my readings.

The fish are improving greatly with very little medication, but I won't stop the regiment just yet.
I'll be back with today's readings later on.

Sounds good. Make sure you use the medication for the entire time recommended in their instructions. Even if the fish look entirely better you still have to continue the full course of treatment to insure the issue is resolved. I don't remember exactly, but I think Maracyn has to be used for 5-7 days straight...don't stop it early. Good job so far.

 

[CaptainMako]

Thanks, it's encouraging to know someone with experience can catch anything I'm doing wrong.
I was tempted to stop at first, because I don't know if over-medicating exists in a case like this, but I realized that would just make it worse.
Both of which are a seven day regiment, with a water change at the end. Will this effect my cycing somehow?
I'm always dosing after any water changes that day for maximum effect.

 

[eco23]

Thanks, it's encouraging to know someone with experience can catch anything I'm doing wrong.
I was tempted to stop at first, because I don't know if over-medicating exists in a case like this, but I realized that would just make it worse.
Both of which are a seven day regiment, with a water change at the end. Will this effect my cycing somehow?
I'm always dosing after any water changes that day for maximum effect.

Dosing after the pwc is the same way I'd go. I don't know for sure if the meds will affect your cycle (I would think many types would by potentially harming the BB), but regardless the process for a fish in cycle won't change whether you're medicating or not. Just don't let the ammo climb over .25.

My understanding is that if you stop the meds early, not only will it not entirely kill off the germ, but it can create an antibiotic-resistant strain of bacteria...which is bad news.

 

[CaptainMako]

I already checked with API's website, and some actual AA members who used it, both insist neither of the meds effect the biological filter.
What I am asking is if that extra water change the meds need will effect my cycling at all.

I may have lost a day on pimafix, but I think I started it last Thursday or Wednesday. Started melafix last night, so they will end on different days. Should I just take both to next Thursday and that should finish it up?