fuge - sump with no overflow?

[Speakerman]

My new reef tank is a 37 gallon tall with tempered glass and all that. I want to set up my little 10 gallon tank as a refugium underneith my reef tank...Is there a way to do this without drilling or building an overflow box?

I want to have LS, LR, crabs, and macro algea in the 10 gallon but I've no idea how to set it up. Can anybody help me out with some detailed instructions or even just some ideas...?

 

[ellisz]

You could set up a refugium as a separate system but it won't give you any filtration benefits. Only way to connect the 2 is drill a hole or set up a hang on overflow.

 

[Speakerman]

how do you set up a hang on overflow?

any pics of something like this?

 

[loyalrogue]

I use a HOB overflow box which drains down to my sump/fuge and then a pump returns the water back up to the main tank.
Pretty standard setup for tanks that aren't pre-drilled.

Here's a pic of one I found at another forum:
(I'd use a pic of my own but I'm on the road right now.)

*Edit: Crap, it didn't show up... Here's a link to the page:
Linky - Nano-reef.com Overflow box photo

You can either buy one at your LFS or you can get them new/used all day long on ebay for pretty cheap like this one:
Linky - Used overflow box

Here's a full list of auctions and eBay stores selling overflow boxes:
Linky - Aquarium overflow boxes

If you want to buy one new, Drs Foster and Smith's website has some nice ones for under $100.
Linky - Doctors Foster and Smith continuous siphon overflow

You don't even need to get fancy with your 10gal fuge by adding baffles... you can just put your pump inside a piece of tall tupperware inside your 10gal to act as a baffle.

I'll try to post a pic of my own later.

 

[Speakerman]

how do you keep the 10 gallon tank from overflowing with the syphon coming from the other tank?!?!? that is what is confusing me...lol...It's probobly a simple answer...but geeze...I can't figure it out lol.

 

[loyalrogue]

It's a simple balancing act between the overflow siphon and the return pump in the fuge.

The return pump sends water into the main tank causing it to "overflow" the level of the overflow box which then sends the excess water back down to the fuge and the pump in a never-ending cycle.

You can adjust the overflow box up or down to get it to the correct level in the main tank.
You want to make sure that the overflow box is high enough and the water level in the fuge is low enough so that if the pump stops, the siphon only drains enough "excess" water from the main tank to fill the fuge without causing it to run over.

 

[Speakerman]

I see...

so if the pump fails, it breaks the syphon...correct?

EDIT:

so technically I could use my xP1 canister filter to pump water out of the fuge into the main tank which will then overflow to the fuge again, then start the cycle over?

This would eliminate another peice of machinery, initial cost, and running cost...and it would even get some of the stuff out of my tank...is getting cluttered in there.

Is this possible?

 

[loyalrogue]

Technically because of the design of the overflow box the siphon never actually gets "broken".
All that happens is as the water level drops in the main tank it reaches a point where it stops spilling into the overflow box.

Check out this page for some diagrams and a good, simple explanation of the overflow theory:

Linky - http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/overflow.htm

As for the canister... I've never used a canister filter but I don't see any reason why it can't be used as the return pump for your fuge.
It may take a little "tweaking" of the plumbing/hoses to get it just right but a pump is a pump... right?

 

[Speakerman]

THANKS so much that explains so much...I KNEW it had to be a simple concept but I just couldn't catch on to it without seeing a picture of how it works...Awesome...

I'm getting one tomorrow from a buddy, then getting some live sand for the tank, and some live rock to go along with it. Then I should be ready to go.

I've thinking about putting two baffels, one on either side of the tank, just about 2" wide or so, enough to put then intake and exhuast hoses into...That way the flow doesn't suck up all the live rock and critters in the fuge. Sound like a good idea?

 

[loyalrogue]

Sounds like a winner.
Make sure you post us some pics when you get done.

 

[Speakerman]

I'll do that, I'll probobly set it up tomorrow...Gonna be fuunnn...lol

 

[trotty]

So many tanks, so little time. Must go spend some time in the garage!

 

[Speakerman]

do I need to turn the lights of on the fuge or should I leave them on the whole time so the algea can grow?

 

[loyalrogue]

I leave the lights on 24 hours a day in my fuge.
Depending on the type of macroalgae you're using there's multiple reasons why this is the best method.

1) It helps to combat the natural PH drop during "lights out" in the main tank.

2) If you're using one of the varieties of caulerpa (most common macroalgae) this helps to keep it from "going sexual" and polluting the water with spores.

3) Most every form of macroalgae is photosynthetic. More light equals more growth and greater nutrient/nitrate absorption.

I've read about some who like to set their fuge lights to be exactly opposite of their display tank but I haven't seen any data that suggests it's any better than the 24/7 method.


Personally I use chaetomorpha/brillo pad macroalgae.
I have to get it off of eBay cause none of my LFS ever seem to have it.

The deal I usually get is about $8 for a sandwich bag full plus $7 shipping.
The seller I buy from is lareefs and he cuts some slack on the shipping for multiple bags.
Up to 3 bags is still the same shipping charge as 1 bag and he always adds some sand and rubble that has always had some good pods.
I have to say though that the bags get punctured during shipping and every box I've gotten has been wet... everything's still survived so I really can't complain...

Heres a link to his auctions:
Linky - Chaetomorpha Macro Algae from lareefs

 

[Speakerman]

Aight sweet, those are pretty much the assuptions I had, but I had to make sure. Thanks bro.