I have a particularly peacefull and healthy black moore and am looking to find out more about him and how others have kept goldfish. Right now hes a young guy , only 3 and a bit inches and lives his days on my counter in a 10g unplanted tank . Ive read a thousand stories about how goldfish are dirty and require alot of tank size, but for his size i feel like its just fine for now. I do frequent water changes usually 50 percent , feed him 3 times a day , his tank has no excessive algae or waste(hes with sand so his poop sits on top then gets vacd out) and water parameters are always good theoughout the week , am i crazy or is the bioload really not bad for his size? I do also realize he will outgrow the tank just swimming room. but im curious why everyone says you need 20 g min ?
Goldfish tank size controversy
- Thread starter Mr.fresh
- Start date
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m.j.gomez
Aquarium Advice Freak
Hello, was keeping 3 fantails in 29gal & then I saw this pic of oranda on internet. Now in 55 & planning on upgrade to 75gal this summer. From what I understand the reason for a bigger tank is so goldie will not get stunted. I've read that fish will stop growing but internal growth continues. This will shortin lifespan(can live 8-10yrs if cared for properly)& cause a painful death. His waste is sm like him but as he grows so will it. Hope this helps!
From what i understand they release some sort of hormone into the water and if that hormone level gets to high then they will stop growing or slow down. maybe.. I could be wrong of course lol but like i said frequent waterchanges. i guess what im really asking is how long or at what point do i determine when to increase his tank size ?
BBradbury
Aquarium Advice Addict
- Joined
- May 24, 2011
- Messages
- 5,011
Hello Mr...
I've got some Goldfish tanks and can tell you a couple of things I've found out about these fish. I follow this rule: 20 gallons for the first fish and roughly 5 gallons for every one after that. Goldfish, given good water conditions will live a decade or more and get quite large. But the large sizes take quite a while. Goldfish are like people. Some people live to be 100, but most don't. The fancy species, like your Black Moor are slow swimmers and need to be kept with other slower Goldfish. Goldfish are very social and peaceful. They'll do well with other, similar species of Goldfish. I keep Orandas, Calicos and Veiltails together.
Clean water is a must for any fish, but larger, heavier waste producers, like Goldfish is especially important. I change at least half the water in my Goldfish tanks every week, sometimes more. The fish need fiber in their diet to keep them healthy. I feed frozen organic spinach once a week.
Your Moor will be fine in 10 gallons of water, but I would get a larger tank and add a slow moving Goldfish species or two and add some floating plants like Water lettuce and Anacharis. Plants make the fish feel comfortable in the water. They're curious fish and like a decoration or two to investigate. I have rocks and driftwood in my tanks, the fish like to explore and large tanks are better for this type of activity. If you have other questions, feel free to ask.
B
I've got some Goldfish tanks and can tell you a couple of things I've found out about these fish. I follow this rule: 20 gallons for the first fish and roughly 5 gallons for every one after that. Goldfish, given good water conditions will live a decade or more and get quite large. But the large sizes take quite a while. Goldfish are like people. Some people live to be 100, but most don't. The fancy species, like your Black Moor are slow swimmers and need to be kept with other slower Goldfish. Goldfish are very social and peaceful. They'll do well with other, similar species of Goldfish. I keep Orandas, Calicos and Veiltails together.
Clean water is a must for any fish, but larger, heavier waste producers, like Goldfish is especially important. I change at least half the water in my Goldfish tanks every week, sometimes more. The fish need fiber in their diet to keep them healthy. I feed frozen organic spinach once a week.
Your Moor will be fine in 10 gallons of water, but I would get a larger tank and add a slow moving Goldfish species or two and add some floating plants like Water lettuce and Anacharis. Plants make the fish feel comfortable in the water. They're curious fish and like a decoration or two to investigate. I have rocks and driftwood in my tanks, the fish like to explore and large tanks are better for this type of activity. If you have other questions, feel free to ask.
B
m.j.gomez
Aquarium Advice Freak
I've read a few articles that said the growth rate varies. It depends on how fish is fed, water quality, tank size & genetics. There have reports of goldfish in 55gal growing to the size of softball in 1yr. Its been 3+mo when I setup a gold fish tank & growth has almost doubled.
That answer sounded so much more reasonable ! 5 g every additional fish makes alot more sense then 20 g per ! I definitely appreciate the knowlege ! My little black moore has been swimming in that tank for about 3 months and he doubled in size from when i first got him but he was just tiny then , hopefully i can upgrade him sometime in the nest 6 to 8 months ! Now the other question is planted or not planted ?
King Fisher
Aquarium Advice Addict
I'll add that anytime you cram together medium to large fish you should have a good knowledge of how to take care of them. Experienced and very dedicated fish keepers, which isn't the majority, get away with overstocking thier tanks. If you don't have the time to do frequent and large water changes and cleanings then don't attempt it. If you don't have the filtration, don't attempt it. If you don't have the knowledge to identify disease, parasites, behavior and how to deal with it with the right meds and procedures then don't attempt it. Overstocking and failure leads to the majority of people giving up on this hobby. There's a reason why most serious goldfish keepers have larger tanks. With that being said, the balance between being able to enjoy a tank or it becoming full time work for you is gonna be your decision.
m.j.gomez
Aquarium Advice Freak
If keeping plants you need 1 w/tuff leaves something fish won't snack on. I have java fern in my tank. Tried anicharis but was stripped to stems in 1wk. Anubias has wicked root that might damage eyes. Haven't tried any others just added a few fakes(silk). I also like to drop in cucumber or peas once in a while seems to keep swimming issues at min.
Kingfisher i totally agree with ya , but experience isnt everything and ive said this im my professional life as well , you can have a guy who has been doing something 15 yrs but is lazy and doesnt truly care about his job or have someone who has been doing it a year but puts 110% energy and care into it and chances are the newerguy will be better at the task at hand. Now im not saying that applies here but i do my best to learn as much as i can and ill tell ya .. ive got alot to learn ! Lucky for me(or should i say my fish) i get swallowed whole by the activity i chose to participate in lol. So do you think biggie the black moore is safe for now ? I do waterchanges every 5 or so days to try and keep the parameters in check, and that does seem to be working pretty good .. i didnt mention that i modded the hob a bit to for some better bb growth.. cartridge refills seemed silly to me .. why throw away all the good bacterial growth with the bad ? Anyway let me know what you think .also i can tell im talking to people with experience so much respect and dont think im disregarding your input , im just a curious guy !
Anubias and jave fern for sure but maybe something fast growing that he can munch on theoughout the say .. idk water lettuce maybe ? Theres a bit of java moss in his tank (just a pinch, seeing how that stuff grows with ambient lighting ) and he wont even look at it. ( and by the way that java moss is actually growing .. not fast but its moving !)
King Fisher
Aquarium Advice Addict
If I had to guess you are going to want more than one goldfish sooner or later. So my take on it is go with a bigger tank, say a 40g breeder minimum and start with 3 fancy goldfish. If you want to really go for it, given enough space of course, get a 6 foot tank. Then you can add several different fancies. A large tank right away also keeps you from having MTS (multiple tank syndrome). Lol. Petco dollar per gallon sale.
A larger amount of water is easier to manage water quality issues than a smaller amount.
A trick I use if I'm using an HOB with the standard throw away cartridges is to run two HOB's. Stagger your filter changes........throw out one cartridge when it gets gunked up and leave the other one alone. Two weeks later throw out the other cartridge. I've never had a bloom with this method and I keep my tanks maxed out to overstocked.
A larger amount of water is easier to manage water quality issues than a smaller amount.
A trick I use if I'm using an HOB with the standard throw away cartridges is to run two HOB's. Stagger your filter changes........throw out one cartridge when it gets gunked up and leave the other one alone. Two weeks later throw out the other cartridge. I've never had a bloom with this method and I keep my tanks maxed out to overstocked.
BBradbury
Aquarium Advice Addict
- Joined
- May 24, 2011
- Messages
- 5,011
Mr...
Definitely planted. I keep Water lettuce floating and Anubias planted in my Goldfish tanks. They'll make a meal of other plants, though. Amazon swords, and Java fern are hardy plants that are Goldfish resistant. Plants are good for the water chemistry in general and Goldfish are good algae eaters and will nibble on most plants.
B
Definitely planted. I keep Water lettuce floating and Anubias planted in my Goldfish tanks. They'll make a meal of other plants, though. Amazon swords, and Java fern are hardy plants that are Goldfish resistant. Plants are good for the water chemistry in general and Goldfish are good algae eaters and will nibble on most plants.
B
Haha mts .. too late for that , im already thinking of using the 10 g for shrimp once biggie is moved and i would love to have a stab at a saltwater setup .. minimum 150g but thats way in the future , as for the dollar per gallon, unfortunatly way up here in the frozen praries of canaderp they dont put on that kind of promotion .. although i do keep my eyes on different sites(kijiji and whatnot) i was on the same page with the goldie tank , 3 or so fancy in a larger tank , maybe 75 g or something , of course all that would have to go through the ol ball and chain first though.. so many options ! Im trying my hand at a planted tank as we speak so ill have to let that play out before i move anything around and make up my mind. as for plants , hows bacopa? It seems to feel pretty durable . I find it very slow growing though which isnt a huge deal i guess but i wonder if the goldfish enjoy the taste of it
The tiny hob im running has some old ceramic sponge(i think thats what its called) i scavenged from another filter and some filter floss and coarse sponge for mechanical. It seems to be working really well , idk if the filter floss is carrying more bb then the ceramic sponge but the water is crystal clear , and like i said perameters are in check. The only problem i had with it was space . The other reason i ditched the insert was the carbon , from almost everything i read its unneeded most of the time. i dont run any carbon in either of my tanks but if anyone has any ideas on how to improve the filter setup while keeping the small hob, that would be awesome ! Maybe a pimp my filter thread in the future ?!?
m.j.gomez
Aquarium Advice Freak
I would like to apologize for myself!!!!! But when you hear 5gal tank & goldfish together it will bring me(& othets)in defence of the fish. Sorry!
King Fisher
Aquarium Advice Addict
If you are looking for plants that grow fast or are low maintenance, or don't really get demolished and the goldfish can munch on it, look at Amazon Sword, Anacharis, Anubias Barteri, water wisteria, water sprite, Java Fern, Hornwort, Duckweed. I'm not a big plant guy so I'm sure there's a lot more out there.
Mj no need to apologize to anyone ! I agree 5 g is pretty small .. we keep these animals in glass cages trust me im only in this for the best interest of the fish. Im interested in a balanced and suitable ecosystem. King fisher thanks again for the input, Ill have to get a list going of rugged plants that will pair well with him .
m.j.gomez
Aquarium Advice Freak
Cool!!!!!
Also an additional couple thoughts for filter media. Often I would add a net bag like they sell lemons and limes and garlic, etc. from the produce stores. You could use a store bought media bag too, for the ceramic rings
https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco...Qzb9HB6o12_aWQJ7NKyaJtJ5FpGw16J4aAjSEEALw_wcB
or https://www.seachem.com/matrix.php
I would hang it under the filter intake outflow to keep good water flow and it builds a good colony of BB. Easy to add more cycled BB to a new tank, and really keep an economical amount for keeping things in check.
A cool item I have bought is the block style, but not used yet is linked below. It has an enormous amount of space for BB.
Quote from marine pure "8"x8"x1” Marinepure Block: 5,750 sq ft
8"x8"x4”Marinepure Block: 23,000 sq ft"
It is mind blowing how much surface area.
MarinePure | Bio Filtration | Aquarium Biofilter
https://www.petco.com/shop/en/petco...Qzb9HB6o12_aWQJ7NKyaJtJ5FpGw16J4aAjSEEALw_wcB
or https://www.seachem.com/matrix.php
I would hang it under the filter intake outflow to keep good water flow and it builds a good colony of BB. Easy to add more cycled BB to a new tank, and really keep an economical amount for keeping things in check.
A cool item I have bought is the block style, but not used yet is linked below. It has an enormous amount of space for BB.
Quote from marine pure "8"x8"x1” Marinepure Block: 5,750 sq ft
8"x8"x4”Marinepure Block: 23,000 sq ft"
It is mind blowing how much surface area.
MarinePure | Bio Filtration | Aquarium Biofilter
m.j.gomez
Aquarium Advice Freak
Hey @Mister.fresh: eventually your going to have problems w/nitrates on 5gal . Been hearing alot of noise lately about people using sweet potato plants to deal w/issue. Cheap & easy!!!!! Might be something to look into.
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