Growth rate, tank setup, stock...

[dermx]

I currently have a 10g with a kenyi, red zebra, yellow lab, and socolofi. They are all about 2-2.5 inches and have been fine in the tank for about 4 months. I was wondering if this tank is constricting growth or not because i have noticed some.
In about 2 weeks i'm going to be putting them in a bigger tank...either a 22gcube or 38g. I was wondering if the 22 would restrict growth at all?
I do water changes twice a week and my water params are consistently:
ammonia 0ppm
nitrate ~4ppm
nirtrite 0ppm

thanks

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Welcome to AA Dermx!

The species that you listed should not be housed in anything less than a 55 gal tank. They are far too aggressive and are going to grow to 4-5" in size. If they are not growing, that could be an indication of poor water quality, insufficient food, or small tank size. I'm surprised that you haven't had any aggression issues between the Kenyi and Lab/Socolofi. What kind of test kit are you using?

 

[maxwell1295]

Yes you need a MUCH larger tank to house those cichlids.....at least a 4ft tank. I'm surprised you have had any casualties or at least some major skirmishes yet. Keep an eye on the Kenyi and the Red Zebra. They can both be pretty aggressive...the Kenyi in particular.

 

[dermx]

I use the API master kit. I feed 3 times a day.

Call it ignorant or whatever but i'm sure they will be fine in the 38.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

They need at least a 55 gal tank. That is the minimum. They are far too aggressive and far too active to be in anything smaller. The 17 gal does make a difference. Not only in the water quality (Africans are very messy fish) but in the amount of space that is available for swimming. This is the advice that you will receive from most African Cichlid keepers. Take it or leave it.

 

[coldmachineUK]

There are two theories about aggression among cichlids, and some breeders opt for either one. The first is that to minimise aggression you should 'overstock' (provided you maintain an extremely rigorous cleaning regime with pwcs and have suitable filtration: i.e. external canisters and the like). Overstocking, or crowding, will distribute aggression across a larger number of fish.
The second theory is that to minimise aggression you should limit smaller tank sizes to one species, so you are only dealing with conspecific aggression. In addition you should provide a large array of territory for each fish to claim. While you may not notice aggression while the fish are young, as they grow older and begin to exhibit spawning behaviour then aggression levels will peak.

So, I would say that if you're new to keeping cichlids you should be on the safe side and opt for the second of these theories: the bigger the tank the better, and try to keep only one of the species you've named rather than all four.

A 38G would be fine for a tank of Malawi mbuna: there are lots and lots of species profiles, along with 'cookie cutters' matching your tank size, up on the Cichlid-Forum.com website. I'd recommend taking a look there and see what you can dig up.

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

Call it ignorant or whatever but i'm sure they will be fine in the 38.

I don't think you're being ignorant. However, I do feel your reaction to information you really didn't want to hear borders on being dangerously stubborn. You're getting advice from people who've been down this road before (at least I have). Just because things are working now doesn't mean they'll continue to work in the future. The behaviour of non-sexually mature juvies and sexually mature adults is two very different things altogether. Again- those of us advising against your stocking list in such a small tank are speaking from personal and practical experience.

 

[O ALX O]

55 gallon minimum!

 

[dermx]

I'm not new to fish keeping...
They are in the 10g only as 2-2.5 inch fish. For the past 4 months the only aggression is the kenyi being a little bossy. There is no physical damage to the fish. The tank is laden with pvc pipes and rockwork. This has been my experience.

I am confident that the 38g will be suitable. I accept any advice, obviously thats why i am posting. To get opinions.

Another concept i suppose...having worked in fish shops. There are many, many fish out there in cramped, small lfs tanks that will live their life in one. People claim its just temporary, but any reasonable person should realize that many fish do not sell and will live and die in cramped conditions like that. Anything may be better...especially with a fish like an african cichlid, which for sale at places like petco are not big sellers due to price and care.

 

[JDogg]

EDITED DUE TO NOT COMING OFF IN THE SPIRIT INTENDED....

Go with the 38 IMO

 

[dermx]

Never did i try to retaliate at the comments just explain the situation to better your understanding.

By saying 'call it ignorant...' was putting down any future critisism. Plus i never asked about what tank size is best in wonderland...i asked about two specific sizes.

Thanks to those who offered information. Its the beauty of internet forums, everyone has an opinion.

 

[Jchillin]

Ok folks, the idea is not to get personal with our posts. Once the posts become personal, it does no one any good.

The advice has been given and it is up to the OP whether to accept it or reject it. This thread will stay on topic, leaving the personal stuff out or those who chose to ignore this will lose the ability to post in it.

 

[zenkatydid]

i understand you are not going to get a 55gal - that's your choice. however, realise that your reasoning is faulty. if you have the choice of living out your life in a shower cubicle, or in a whole bathroom, you're obviously going to choose the whole bathroom. however, you will have a miserable life, and by the end of it, will probably have preferred you didn't live at all. do you know what i mean? just because the 38gal is better than the 10gal, does not mean is it suitable, or even fair, to keep your fish in. jmo.

 

[dermx]

i understand you are not going to get a 55gal - that's your choice. however, realise that your reasoning is faulty. if you have the choice of living out your life in a shower cubicle, or in a whole bathroom, you're obviously going to choose the whole bathroom. however, you will have a miserable life, and by the end of it, will probably have preferred you didn't live at all. do you know what i mean? just because the 38gal is better than the 10gal, does not mean is it suitable, or even fair, to keep your fish in. jmo.

Go tell that to those who buy oscars from petsmart to put in a fish bowl.
Tell that to the people who think fish dying is part of the hobby...to those who neglect their tanks.

Done. You guys have a cool forum here but i have found that the dedicated cichlid forums are a lot less critical.

 

[zenkatydid]

just because your next door neighbour kicks his dog, does not mean it's ok for you to!

i am leaving it there, because i am getting frustrated and angry.

i wish you luck.

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

Dermx-

You mentioned "dedicated cichlid forums". Out of curiousity, did one of these tell you your plan was okay?

 

[dermx]

Dermx-

You mentioned "dedicated cichlid forums". Out of curiousity, did one of these tell you your plan was okay?

I didnt post on every forum...i browsed various cichlid forums and a few dedicated african foums. And what i saw was people asking similar questions...for instance one was about keeping a community in a 30g. No one said "youcantdothatyoucantdothatyoucantdothat,55gallononly." They just offered advice, and i noticed a similar trend on the majority of them.

 

[Jchillin]

dermx - I doubt very strongly that any advice you receive regarding your original question would not cast doubt on the tank size and a better option suggested.

You have decided to reject the members advice, which is well within your rights. Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[DeFeKt]

In about 2 weeks i'm going to be putting them in a bigger tank...either a 22gcube or 38g. I was wondering if the 22 would restrict growth at all?

Short answer. Yes.
Longer answer. Yes....but to an extent so will the 38
That is not to say that it is impossible to keep them happy.
You have 4 fish in a 38 gallon. I think you will be successful, but I wouldn't recommend getting any more fish.
They will probably get slower due to lack of swimming space, they will probably get fatter due to less exercise, and for the same reasons will not grow at excessive rates either.

Be aware that some fish are just born "Dud" . Thats why some breeders choose to cull and feed off the ones that lack behind in colouring and growth. Some do, some don't.
I've had a maingano that has remained at 2 inchs in a 100gallon tank for the last year.
It's simple. I just don't breed her or keep her fry to help improve the genetic lines available in Oz.

Now..
This is a bit rude

55 gallon minimum!

but, according to this:

I'm not new to fish keeping...
.
.
Another concept i suppose...having worked in fish shops. There are many, many fish out there in cramped, small lfs tanks that will live their life in one.

you should understand what he/she was implying.


I hope this helps a bit more

 

[kay-bee19]

I accept any advice...

The bigger tank will be better than the 10gal they're currently in.

The 38gal will work for a while but isn't best for long term success. Dominant 4"-5" mbuna don't behave like 2"-2.5" juvies.

After acquiring the 38gal, the signal that you will need a subsequent tank upgrade will be when one or more of your mbuna (probably the kenyi/red zebra) goes into a constant rampage (which is pretty much why a 55gal+ set up from the get-go is commonly recommended).

A small group of matured mbuna in a small tank isn't set up for success. Under those conditions a hyperdominant metriaclima would be capable of launching a successful killing spree. If this type of activity doesn't manifest itself in the 38gal, then you've lucked out.

Another concept i suppose...having worked in fish shops. There are many, many fish out there in cramped, small lfs tanks that will live their life in one. People claim its just temporary, but any reasonable person should realize that many fish do not sell and will live and die in cramped conditions like that....

Prematurely....these mbuna have 6-8+ year life spans.