Help, Ready to give up

[Basha]

Can anyone help me? In the past two month's I have spent $2,000. I have no more money and just a big mess with expensive stuff that is just plain useless. It started with the purchase of a 10g tank after two weeks I added 6 zebra danios and a beta. 1 danio died and the beta died of that cotton disease. I treated the tank all was well. Bought on Bala Shark, was told by local pet store that was fine and dandy. Learned several day's later when he started loosing scales that he needed company. Bought four more Bala's a blue cray a catfish and pleco. But problem persisted was seeking advice when my 10g. sprung a leak. Knew I needed a bigger tank anyway so I bought a 55g tank. Had to set it up in a hurry. I tranferred about 10 to 15 gallons of water from old tank to new and kept filter media, penguin 330. Everything is completely out of control. I have done everything I was told, tons of chemical's. I have done quick cure, Ace for ammonia, which I think is now killing my catfish. Ph down does not do anything for my Ph level's. Nitrites are at .25 ammonia is at 2.0. I have no idea as to what my nitrates are because I have just learned there was a difference. My Cray has just molted so I do not know how he is doing. every fish is sick. I have more than one disease going on, as there is ich involved plus rotting fins, smell and now breathing problems. I have bought everything I knew to buy and my husband and I are broke, tired and fed up. I also added salt turned the temp to 81 for awhile then heater broke and fell to 72. There is much more to this sad story but it would take a book. Unless there is a miracle we are going to let them die and sell the tank or maybe, if I can talk him into it, start over though that is unlikely
Any advice?

 

[shawmutt]

Phew!

First of all, welcome to AA, stick with us and you'll be a happier fish-keeper.

Second, you need to immediately get a heater and get the water temp up a bit.

Third of all, you'll want to read this article on the nitrogen cycle.

Finally, NO MORE CHEMICALS PLEASE!!! For the most part they are a waste of money.

 

[BrianNY]

I wouldn't give up just yet Basha. You haven't made any mistakes that most new hobbyists go through. You just did it on a more expensive scale. Keeping an aquarium is easy as long as you're armed with some basic knowledge.

After you read the article that shawmutt suggested you'll have an understanding of what occured in your tank. In short, you really overstocked that tank. You added all the fish before the filters had a chance to become established (they probably would never be able to keep up with so many of those fish in a 10gal), and fish poisoned themselves in their own waste.

Be patient, go slowly, and I'm sure you'll do just fine. There are lots of excellent people on AA who are happy to help you.

 

[Voodoo Chilli]

I'll third the advice: horrible things have happened to you, but these are easily dealt with if you've got good advice (which your shop obviously wasn't able to provide), a little knowledge, and a lot of patience.

Read up on the nitrogen cycle, methods of cycling, etc. Ask questions here. This is a problem we've ALL gone through, unless lucky enough to have someone experienced walk us through it the first time around. Don't worry- YOU'LL be helping someone with New Tank Syndrome before you know it!

I know you've spent a ton of money but I highly recommend getting yourself a quality, SUBMERSIBLE heater to replace the broken one. I can't say enough good things about Ebo Jager. Deluxe Visi-therms are also a good choice. If you haven't already purchased one, I'd also suggest a water test kit for pH, ammonia, nitrite, and maybe hardness and nitrates. Regular testing will help you "see" potential trouble BEFORE it pops up.

Forget all the water additives: it sounds like the shop was trying to sell you a lot of stuff you didn't need. Meds are good to use if needed, as is a chlorine/chloramine remover if you're on a municipal system- but the rest of that stuff will just cause instability and stress for your fish.

To get you started: what's left in the tank? Any illnesses? Can you get a current reading on your pH, ammonia, and nitrite levels?

We'll get you through this: hang in there!

 

[Basha]

Thank you so much for your help and quick replies. My Nitrite levels have not risen yet and they are at .025. My ammonia levels have not risen either but are very high at 2.0-1.5. My Ph tests so high that all I know is that it is over 8.0. I have used Ph down for 5 day's and no change. I have already bought a new heater, submersible but after that fall in temp I don't know. I have been using quick cure for three day's because of the multiple disease problem. I am not sure how many diseases I have. I definitely have Ich but and it does not appear to be spreading but the white spots are still on my Balas only two show spots. However the fin problem does appear to be getting worse and spreading to the other balas. I should NOT have said FIN. It is on the sides of the balas the silver body part, I know I sound ignorant sorry. There are spots where it appears the silver is gone and you can see pink flesh underneath. I have no idea what it is. I have done stress enzymes and cycle but to no avail. Perhaps the high acidity is eating them or the high ammonia, I don't know. My tap water tests off the charts for Ph. So today I plan on removing water and adding ten gallons of store bought water. Is this wise since I think technically this would be considered a new, super fast, set up? My tank 55g. now has a crayfish, catfish, placo, 5 Bala sharks one 4" and four 2", 5 small gouramis to clean the gravel. I do have good news. My crayfish has emerged he is so much bigger and appears to be in perfect health, no deformities I cannot believe it! My catfish is acting better also. I always use water conditioner when adding new water.
Thank you again, you guys are fantasic

 

[mitche8359]

Welcome Basha. Stick with it Things will get better.

Where in OH are you? I"m in Columbus and my tap measures a little over 7.

 

[Basha]

Mitch, I am in Toledo. I think the problem has to with the Maumee, Lake Erie, Sun oil and Davis Betsy Nuclear power plant. I am encircled by these plants and the rivers have been deemed unfit since last summer, for Lake erie. No one is now allowed to swim at the great lakes resort Maumee Bay.

Just a theory

 

[Menagerie]

[center:9e0504c54b] Welcome to AA, Basha! [/center:9e0504c54b]

Stop using pH down immediately!! If the tank is not well buffered, there could be massive pH swings that are also affecting your fish.
I would like you to measure your tap water's pH the proper way--fill a glass with water and let it sit out over night. This way, the gasses equilibrate (sp) and you will get the true pH.

My Nitrite levels have not risen yet and they are at .025. My ammonia levels have not risen either but are very high at 2.0-1.5

Do a 50% water change. When you put back in the water, only add dechlor and enough meds to make up for what you took out. For the next few days, you will need to do 20-30% water changes to keep the ammonia down. Do not use chemicals to keep the ammonia or nitrites down--the best way to do this is by water changes.

 

[Basha]

I will do the glass of water test tomorrow morning. I was only able to do a 15g. water change today, thats all the distilled water I had. I will do more tomorrow. The reason I hadn't done that already is because I was told not to because my tank was under New status and that would mess up good bacteria. I am wondering if there is or was any good bacteria in my thirty gallon to begin with. This 55g. is only six days old. I only put in around 10 to 15 gallons of the thirty gallon tank and took my filter to the new 55g. Are those two bio balls enough for the good bacteria or should I look for an additional filter. I have a marineland penguin 330 suppose to clean a 70g. tank. Also I was told not to change water because of the treatment for the disease. I did NOT turn off my filter or remove carbon during the treatments because I was told that under the circumstances that was not wise. Right now the water change has done nothing for my Ph. still high. The ammonia is down to 1.0 and the nitrites have lessoned but not a full color, somewhere between .25 and .00. I also added a bubble wall for more oxygen.
Thanks again for all your help everyone

 

[Guest]

Why are you using distilled water? Also carbon removes medications from the water so I don't know what was the point in medicating if you hadn't removed the carbon.

 

[Menagerie]

Something is not right at the LFS. Not removing carbon with medicating is a HUGE waste of money. Unless your carbon is so old that it is not effective anymore. As for the "new tank status"--If your fish are suffering from ammonia and or nitrite poisoning, changing the water is the only reliable plan.
I'll second fsh's Q--why are you using distilled water?

 

[Basha]

Was told to use distilled water because of very high Ph levels also I was told my water had alkaline which is why Ph down does not work. I was told by a couple of different people that quick cure could be used with carbon still in the water. The pet store told me not to take out the carbon because of what happened with the tank. This is explained in greater detail in my prior posts. Long story but basically these are the things I have been told. Are they incorrect?

 

[Basha]

I am using distilled water because I was told my water is high alkaline and that is why my Ph is so high and will not go down. I was also told to keep the carbon in while medicating and to turn the tank heater to 81 to help control disease because of the tank situation spoken of in the prior posts and the ammonia problems.
Was I told wrong?

 

[Rocket2001]

Is it just me or does anyone else see a potential problem in the 5 Bala Sharks...these things get to be 13 in each, in a 55gal tank? Then add in the other fish...any problems solved now are just temp fixes right? I love Bala Sharks but I won't think about buying one or more untill i have a 75-125gal tank. Just MHO.

 

[Basha]

When I bought the first 4" Bala shark I was told that that would be fine for my 30g. tank. When I got home and looked them up I found out that it was not fine. That they needed company and that SOME get to be 14", most however do not, so I am told. So when my 30g. sprung a leak I was not that upset because I knew I would have to upsize. The ammonia problem was already existent in the 30g. tank before the Bala and Balas ever got there, I just didn't know it then. I think where I went wrong was when I put the 30g tank water in the 55g. I think I just transferred the ammonia problem. My balas are very small right now and the tank is plenty big enough to accommodate them and the few others I have. I feed much less and have learned allot mostly don't listen to pet stores. In the future when it is time to once again upgrade on account of the Balas size that will be easy enough. Just did not have the money at present for the 75g tank all things considered.

 

[Menagerie]

I am using distilled water because I was told my water is high alkaline and that is why my Ph is so high and will not go down.

The pH is above 8 with the use of distilled water?!? When did you start using distilled water? I just want to make sure I know the time line, so I can properly help.
I'm not worried about the potenial fish size as I am with the pH, ammonia and nitrite.
Granted, some meds will work with the carbon (or so it says on the packaging). Carbon is not helping with the new tank. Carbon removes chemicals. I do not use carbon in my 7 tanks. Overall, it is not worth it, unless you need to remove chemicals and I always medicate in a QT tank.

I only put in around 10 to 15 gallons of the thirty gallon tank and took my filter to the new 55g. Are those two bio balls enough for the good bacteria or should I look for an additional filter. I have a marineland penguin 330 suppose to clean a 70g. tank.

I do not think this is the source of the ammonia, and if it was, it was highly toxic when it was moved. I am not clear where the bioballs are now. Do the bioballs have lots of bacteria on them? Is the penguin set up? Many people on this board use multiple filters on larger tanks. I do not; however, I use canister filters because they can hold whatever media I want and that allows for a ton of beneficial bacteria growth.

However the fin problem does appear to be getting worse and spreading to the other balas. I should NOT have said FIN. It is on the sides of the balas the silver body part, I know I sound ignorant sorry. There are spots where it appears the silver is gone and you can see pink flesh underneath.

The best thing for the tank--for the ich problem is to follow this article. Because you are cycling the tank, I would use as few chemicals as possible. Let's get to the bottom of the water problems by eliminating possible problems. I am currently treating a small tank for ich using 86F and some aquarium salt (1TBPS per gallon), others have used this method and it does work. Now back to the pink flesh problem. Is there anyway to isolate this fish? Do you have a smaller tank, or a rubbermaid container that you can put a 50W heater and an airstone into? Do not worry about a cycled QT tank, when medicating, it is best to do water changes often. An article on QT tanks can be found here.
Look through these sites for a description of what is happening to your shark:
http://www.aquatronicsonline.com/hobbyist/hobbyist3.htm
http://www.aqualink.com/disease/sdisease.html#ich
http://fish.mongabay.com/diseases.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/fishdisho.htm
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/health.htm
Once you find the problem, we can work on a remedy. I don't like treating fish blindly.

Please excuse me if I repeat anything, but I want to be sure:
Are you using a liquid test kit for ammonia, nitrite and nitrates?
You will test the tap water after it sat out over night (I remember this).
If the tap water turns out to be highly basic, then there are natural ways to bring it down slowly--we can help!

 

[Basha]

Yesterday was the first time I used distilled water. 15 g. Again I mis-spoke, I did not mean bio balls I meant bio-wheel's there are two on my filter. I know, though I did not test, that the ammonia levels in the 30g. was very high. I was told at the pet store that I did not need to worry about testing for that. However, I believe that the mis-understanding was my fault because at the time I asked the tank was only set up for two weeks and I know now that there is no need to test because there was no fish. I took it to mean I did not have to test at all. I also in the past week have realized and when I took the tank down realized that the gravel was very dirty. This is probably why when I added fish to the that tank they became ill and some even died. Before I could work out the mess in the 30g. it sprung a leak, being worried about the new tank not cycling I was told to add as much water as I could, 15g. to the new tank and put the filter in the new tank as is, that is what I did. Then I bought the test kits and there are all these problems. Either my filter is no good or I need more filters or I really messed everything up some how. With everything that has happened it is hard to figure out what caused what. There was a temperature drop also. This morning my daughter threw out the glass of water sitting on the counter for the Ph test I am suppose to do this morning. I have hid a new glass and will test it this evening sorry. I do not have a quarantine tank but when I can get my 30g. fixed 2wks from now I plan on using it for that purpose I will never just add a fish again. In the mean time I can try to make one if you think it is necessary.
Sorry about the length of this but here is what I have done in the 55g. tank.
Set it up using 15g. old water and filter from old tank.
Set water temp. at 82 and added 10 teaspoons of aquarium salt.
Used tetra aqua safe to treat new water added and added stress zyme and cycle for new tanks.
day two tested levels. Ammonia at 2.0, nitrite .25 Ph. above 7.6 that as high as my test color charts go.
Added ACE (ammonia chloramine eliminator) more cycle and stress zyme. also added filter aid, claim not to let particles get through filter. Noticed new heater was not working temp plummeted to 7.2 over night. bought new heater. Kept this heater at 80, temp still at 80. Also, started adding quick cure turned water greenish/blue. used that for three day's.
Noticed catfish gasping for air at top of tank, not eating and just staying in one place all day. Added bubble wall for oxygen never used ACE again.
All water levels remained the same until yesterday. ACE say's that ammonia will still read the same but has been neutralized don't know about that but do know that nitrites have not risen.
Yesterday performed 15g. water change with sterilized water. All water levels but Ph. have lowered. Nitrites not by much.
Today ammonia is at 1.0, Nitrites are between .25 and 0.00 Ph. no apparent change. I know the Ph. was at 8.0 a week ago because I had my water tested at the pet store. Also I used Ph. down for 4 or 5 day's. If it worked it still is not below a 7.6. Catfish still at top of tank swimming no where. Today will be day three he has not eaten. Yesterday he showed signs of recovery by swimming around. But after the water change yesterday went back to doing the same thing. NO disease has spread. Tuesday, Wednesday and today no new marks. Old marks show no improvement. Only one Bala shows one spot of ich that white spot is still there, will it ever go away. The scales of the Bala's, two of them, show no improvement but no spreading either.
Thank you for your help and patience

 

[Menagerie]

This morning my daughter threw out the glass of water sitting on the counter for the Ph test I am suppose to do this morning.

Kids are always trying to help

Ammonia at 2.0, nitrite .25 Ph. above 7.6 that as high as my test color charts go.
Added ACE (ammonia chloramine eliminator) more cycle and stress zyme. also added filter aid, claim not to let particles get through filter. Noticed new heater was not working temp plummeted to 7.2 over night. bought new heater. Kept this heater at 80, temp still at 80. Also, started adding quick cure turned water greenish/blue. used that for three day's.

What is the ammonia reading after the addition of ACE. I don't like the use of ACE since you need ammonia to cycle the tank. I can't tell if the water change made a difference or the ACE.
What type of heater did you buy? I hope you kept the reciept! Heaters are one of the things you cannot go cheap on--Ebo Jagers are highly recommended because they last, but they are pricely. The new-improved VisaTherms do well also.

That quick cure will stain the seals of your aquarium--another reason never to treat in the main tank. The blueish coloring will go away, but it will take a lot of time. I treated in my 10 gal hex tank back in Feb, and it's still blue

When you look at the biowheels, do they look brownish? (They do start off white.) If they are brown, that's a good sign. Since you do have a nitrite reading, there must be some bacteria there. When you look at the pad behind the wheels, is it covered in bacteria?
In your pH test kit, is there two bottles--this may sound odd, but some people mistake the second bottle as an extra. If there is not a second bottle, or it says something like "low pH," then pick up a high pH test kit at the LFS. When I bought my Master test kit, both were included and have saved me a lot of guess work.
Since the disease, or what ever is affecting the balas, let them be for now. Continue the treatment you have already started and read over the links I gave you last night and hope that you can tell what is wrong with the balas.

Thank you for your help and patience

I am happy to help all new comers to the hobby! You and your fish will get through this. Then it's easy!

 

[Basha]

The Ammonia test showed no change after use of ACE not higher or lower. Yesterday was the first time the Ammonia showed a change from 2.0 to 1.0, with a very slight change in nitrites also. About an hour after I did the water change I tested the ammonia and nitrites that is the first change I have ever seen. Should I do another change in water today? If I do should I use tap or distilled? Also if I do should I add any Ph. down?
The first heater, that failed, was a cheap one $12.00. The new heater is a Second nature Acura 200 watt. submersible that cost $35.00. I have this heater set at 77degrees and it keeps the water at 79/80 I am not happy with the heater on account of the difference. I do not have the receipt because when I returned the first heater they had to deduct the price and I did not get a new receipt. When I have the money I will either try to return it or just buy what you have recommended. I check the thermometer about 4 or 5 times a day. I have even stayed up all night on more than one occasion with these fish. It may sound silly but I have become pretty attached to them. Do you have any advice on the situation with my Catfish. It really looks like he will not make it. He must be exhausted and still will not eat. Today will make three whole day's. I monitor the food religiously and I know he has not gotten any.
The bio-wheels on the filter look dark grey no brown. The blue pads, that contain the Carbon does have some brownish coloring on the tops and moving down the sides. I have been told to change these pads once a month. I should tell you that this filter was used when I bought it. I got the 30g tank set up off of ebay. I washed the filter out and the Bio-wheels. I did not no any better then. I only rinsed them in warmer water. Between the two tanks this filter has been set up and used here for about two months.

 

[Basha]

Sorry I forgot to mention that there is only on bottle and that only reads up to 7.6 Ph. Levels. Mine shows 7.6 everytime tested.