Help with aquarium changeover

[Tippytrampoline]

I've been tossing around the idea of graduating my tank up to a planted aquarium, but have been avoiding it because after trying a nano, I failed. But now I have a pair of GBRs and a couple of angels, and I know they will benefit from a little extra help in the water quality department.

So anyway, I'm thinking of changing over some of the gravel To either sand or another substrate, and planting the tank. I'd like to set up a detailed plan ahead of time before diving into it, so as to get it done as quickly as possible with the least amount of stress to the fish.

I have two issues: one being that I do not have another tank to keep the fish in while the changeover is in progress, and having no idea how long this could take I'm afraid to put them in a bucket. I have six gold neon tetras, a yoyo loach, two GBR and two small angels. A bucket does not seem feasible. I do however have a 10 gallon with a filter in my basement, would that be okay as long as the changeover doesn't take more than a day? I'm guessing not. Actually, that's a bad idea, I'm just fishing (literally) for options. Maybe do the changeover while they are in the tank? I'm afraid they would be super stressed. One of the angels is already fairly sensitive.
The other issue is if I change over the gravel, would this cause a mini cycle? I have two filter pads in the filter, and I know those contain the most BB. So, from what I've read and learned on here, even if a mini cycle occurs I'll just have to check water params daily and change water as needed. Yes?

I'm exhausted just thinking about this project, haha! But I know it'll be worth the effort in the end.

As for plants, as I'm just starting out in that department, I'd like to stick with low or moderate light and moderate to quick growth if that's possible? I don't want to go through all of this just to fail miserably, so something rather low maintenance.
I'd also really love some advice on chemicals, especially CO2 as I'm in no way comfortable trying to install a CO2 system. I know for a fact I will screw that up.

I know this is very long-winded and a lot to answer, but any help, big or small, will be greatly appreciated!! I'm looking forward to working with everyone, and I really hope to get started with this when the ground starts to thaw, as I've read that's preferred over winter for plant shipment.

Okay if I can think of anything else I'll update Thanks in advance everyone!!!

 

[Scottyhorse]

I've been tossing around the idea of graduating my tank up to a planted aquarium, but have been avoiding it because after trying a nano, I failed. But now I have a pair of GBRs and a couple of angels, and I know they will benefit from a little extra help in the water quality department.

So anyway, I'm thinking of changing over some of the gravel To either sand or another substrate, and planting the tank. I'd like to set up a detailed plan ahead of time before diving into it, so as to get it done as quickly as possible with the least amount of stress to the fish.

I have two issues: one being that I do not have another tank to keep the fish in while the changeover is in progress, and having no idea how long this could take I'm afraid to put them in a bucket. I have six gold neon tetras, a yoyo loach, two GBR and two small angels. A bucket does not seem feasible. I do however have a 10 gallon with a filter in my basement, would that be okay as long as the changeover doesn't take more than a day? I'm guessing not. Actually, that's a bad idea, I'm just fishing (literally) for options. Maybe do the changeover while they are in the tank? I'm afraid they would be super stressed. One of the angels is already fairly sensitive.
The other issue is if I change over the gravel, would this cause a mini cycle? I have two filter pads in the filter, and I know those contain the most BB. So, from what I've read and learned on here, even if a mini cycle occurs I'll just have to check water params daily and change water as needed. Yes?

I'm exhausted just thinking about this project, haha! But I know it'll be worth the effort in the end.

As for plants, as I'm just starting out in that department, I'd like to stick with low or moderate light and moderate to quick growth if that's possible? I don't want to go through all of this just to fail miserably, so something rather low maintenance.
I'd also really love some advice on chemicals, especially CO2 as I'm in no way comfortable trying to install a CO2 system. I know for a fact I will screw that up.

I know this is very long-winded and a lot to answer, but any help, big or small, will be greatly appreciated!! I'm looking forward to working with everyone, and I really hope to get started with this when the ground starts to thaw, as I've read that's preferred over winter for plant shipment.

Okay if I can think of anything else I'll update Thanks in advance everyone!!!

Hi Tippy! You are right that your rams and angels would like the plants! Good for you to make the change to a planted tank! I really love my planted shrimp tank.

First of all, how large is your tank? If I remember correctly, you said you had a 29 gallon, correct?

Here is an idea for housing your fish: Go to walmart and buy a large storage tub. Fill it up with water and but all your water conditioners in there the day before you are going to plant. Then before you put your fish in there, move the filter over onto the tub and put the fish in there. They would do fine in that for a day or two!

Yes, switching out the gravel could cause a mini cycle, you are correct. But what you can do is:

Put some of your old gravel in a nylon stocking, and after you put the new substrate in, but the stocking on the gravel to seed it. Then after it is seeded you can take it out.
Also, have you heard of a silent cycle? Its where you plant your tank to about 80%, and the plants will eat all the ammonia and nitrites and everything. Rivercats actually cycled her 220 gal tank in 10 days that way!

Good plants are crypts, wisteria, and Hygro, duckweed, java moss, I just had a nice list.... Ug. If you just google fast growing aquarium plants you will find lots. And, you won't have to worry about a co2.

Seachem P and Seachem N would be good to add if you need to!

 

[Tippytrampoline]

Hi Tippy! You are right that your rams and angels would like the plants! Good for you to make the change to a planted tank! I really love my planted shrimp tank.

Hey, Scotty!!! Thank you for responding, and also for being so nice! I'm always worried someone is going to say something that will break my heart, haha!

First of all, how large is your tank? If I remember correctly, you said you had a 29 gallon, correct?

It is indeed a 29 gallon.

Here is an idea for housing your fish: Go to walmart and buy a large storage tub. Fill it up with water and but all your water conditioners in there the day before you are going to plant. Then before you put your fish in there, move the filter over onto the tub and put the fish in there. They would do fine in that for a day or two!

It's actually kind of funny that you mentioned this, because I was literally thinking the very same thing right after I posted this!! I'm super glad you confirmed my idea though, it shows me I'm not all crazy! ;p

Yes, switching out the gravel could cause a mini cycle, you are correct. But what you can do is:

Put some of your old gravel in a nylon stocking, and after you put the new substrate in, but the stocking on the gravel to seed it. Then after it is seeded you can take it out.

This is brilliant!!! Thank you!!!

Also, have you heard of a silent cycle? Its where you plant your tank to about 80%, and the plants will eat all the ammonia and nitrites and everything. Rivercats actually cycled her 220 gal tank in 10 days that way!

I actually just read up on that a couple of days ago, an I will indeed do a search and see if I can dig up any specific information from Rivercats. Always so full of valuable info, that one!

Good plants are crypts, wisteria, and Hygro, duckweed, java moss, I just had a nice list.... Ug. If you just google fast growing aquarium plants you will find lots. And, you won't have to worry about a co2.

Seachem P and Seachem N would be good to add if you need to!

Awesome awesome awesome, thank you so much!! I'm hoping to partially use this tread as a kind of checklist, as I've been finding all sorts of usable information, but I can't keep it all straight! So this helped so much, thank you bunches, Scottyhorse!!!!

 

[librarygirl]

My replies below in blue....

I've been tossing around the idea of graduating my tank up to a planted aquarium, but have been avoiding it because after trying a nano, I failed. But now I have a pair of GBRs and a couple of angels, and I know they will benefit from a little extra help in the water quality department.

So anyway, I'm thinking of changing over some of the gravel To either sand or another substrate, and planting the tank. I'd like to set up a detailed plan ahead of time before diving into it, so as to get it done as quickly as possible with the least amount of stress to the fish.

I have two issues: one being that I do not have another tank to keep the fish in while the changeover is in progress, and having no idea how long this could take I'm afraid to put them in a bucket. I have six gold neon tetras, a yoyo loach, two GBR and two small angels. A bucket does not seem feasible. I do however have a 10 gallon with a filter in my basement, would that be okay as long as the changeover doesn't take more than a day? I'm guessing not. Actually, that's a bad idea, I'm just fishing (literally) for options. Maybe do the changeover while they are in the tank? I'm afraid they would be super stressed. One of the angels is already fairly sensitive.
I've upgraded tanks and changed substrate. You can do it with fish but it's tedious and will likely stress them out more. Do you have a large Rubbermaid type bucket? If so, drain a good portion of the water from the tank into the bucket, add a heater (I usually have a spare lying around for this type of thing, a spare heater is a good investment) and an air stone for oxygen or if you can add the current filter to the bucket, run that. THen you can pretty much take as long as you want to redo the tank since the fish will have water movement and heat while in the bucket. I usually add some Stress Coat to the bucket too; no idea if this actually helps them but I do it anyway.

The other issue is if I change over the gravel, would this cause a mini cycle? I have two filter pads in the filter, and I know those contain the most BB. So, from what I've read and learned on here, even if a mini cycle occurs I'll just have to check water params daily and change water as needed. Yes?
Yep. Most of the bacteria live in the filters, so as long as you either run the current filter on the new tank with the new filter, or add the media from the current filter to the new filter it should be fine. I never had a mini-cycle when I upgraded and changed substrate but every tank is different. Just check the tank daily for a week or so to make sure everything is stable. If ammonia or nitrite rise just do some extra water changes until things level out again.


I'm exhausted just thinking about this project, haha! But I know it'll be worth the effort in the end.

As for plants, as I'm just starting out in that department, I'd like to stick with low or moderate light and moderate to quick growth if that's possible? I don't want to go through all of this just to fail miserably, so something rather low maintenance.
I'd also really love some advice on chemicals, especially CO2 as I'm in no way comfortable trying to install a CO2 system. I know for a fact I will screw that up.
If you're aiming for low-tech, you won't need CO2. I have a moderately planted tank with low-medium light and no Co2 and minimal fertilizers. Some good plants are hornwort, most mosses, anubias, java fern, swords, cryps. Do a Google search for "low light aquarium plants" and you'll get a good list.

I know this is very long-winded and a lot to answer, but any help, big or small, will be greatly appreciated!! I'm looking forward to working with everyone, and I really hope to get started with this when the ground starts to thaw, as I've read that's preferred over winter for plant shipment.

Okay if I can think of anything else I'll update Thanks in advance everyone!!!

 

[Scottyhorse]

Hey, Scotty!!! Thank you for responding, and also for being so nice! I'm always worried someone is going to say something that will break my heart, haha!



It is indeed a 29 gallon.



It's actually kind of funny that you mentioned this, because I was literally thinking the very same thing right after I posted this!! I'm super glad you confirmed my idea though, it shows me I'm not all crazy! ;p



This is brilliant!!! Thank you!!!




I actually just read up on that a couple of days ago, an I will indeed do a search and see if I can dig up any specific information from Rivercats. Always so full of valuable info, that one!



Awesome awesome awesome, thank you so much!! I'm hoping to partially use this tread as a kind of checklist, as I've been finding all sorts of usable information, but I can't keep it all straight! So this helped so much, thank you bunches, Scottyhorse!!!!

You're welcome, Tippy! You were helpful with me question about the German Blue Rams, so I owe it to you! By the way, I am going to start that here in about a week! I'm going to make a build thread about it, you should follow along You will need to post pictures when you start your project! I'd LOVE to see it!!!

 

[Tippytrampoline]

My replies below in blue....

Thank you SO MUCH, library girl! I really appreciate the feedback, and what you said about the big Rubbermaid was basically what Scotty said with a couple extra specifications. I feel MUCH more confident now now the only concern I have is whether I should purchase the plants from my lfs or online. I have a credit card for my lfs, so my budget is $1000. I know that the lfs keeps fish and snails in with their plants, an I've heard that purchasing plants from the same tank as one with fish or snails could potentially carry snail eggs or diseases like ich. Should I really worry that much?

 

[Tippytrampoline]

You're welcome, Tippy! You were helpful with me question about the German Blue Rams, so I owe it to you! By the way, I am going to start that here in about a week! I'm going to make a build thread about it, you should follow along You will need to post pictures when you start your project! I'd LOVE to see it!!!

I was absolutely happy to help!! And I'm so glad that you've decided to pursue them, they're absolute gems and super entertaining!! I will definitely keep my eyes peeled for when you start that thread, and I will try my best to keep updates regular on this thread, if you're that interested!! I'm planning to start in the spring, when the ground starts to thaw.

 

[Scottyhorse]

Thank you SO MUCH, library girl! I really appreciate the feedback, and what you said about the big Rubbermaid was basically what Scotty said with a couple extra specifications. I feel MUCH more confident now now the only concern I have is whether I should purchase the plants from my lfs or online. I have a credit card for my lfs, so my budget is $1000. I know that the lfs keeps fish and snails in with their plants, an I've heard that purchasing plants from the same tank as one with fish or snails could potentially carry snail eggs or diseases like ich. Should I really worry that much?

Go http://http://www.aquariumplants.com/ for your aquarium plants!! I am getting a whole ton for my 25 gal for $70, shipped. And, they don't have snails!

Here is my plan, just so you can see how many plants I am getting:

Hopefully you can see it okay.

 

[Scottyhorse]

Well, you can get an idea at least. But there is going to be about 80% plant coverage.

 

[Fresh2o]

Thank you SO MUCH, library girl! I really appreciate the feedback, and what you said about the big Rubbermaid was basically what Scotty said with a couple extra specifications. I feel MUCH more confident now now the only concern I have is whether I should purchase the plants from my lfs or online. I have a credit card for my lfs, so my budget is $1000. I know that the lfs keeps fish and snails in with their plants, an I've heard that purchasing plants from the same tank as one with fish or snails could potentially carry snail eggs or diseases like ich. Should I really worry that much?

If you can get plants from tanks with no fish that would be preferable. Last thing you want to do after a re-scape is treat for Ich. Chemical treatments can do a number on your biological filter. You might be able to dip the plants in something to kill the bad stuff (plant folks can chime in here).
Mail order might be the way to go.

 

[Tippytrampoline]

If you can get plants from tanks with no fish that would be preferable. Last thing you want to do after a re-scape is treat for Ich. Chemical treatments can do a number on your biological filter. You might be able to dip the plants in something to kill the bad stuff (plant folks can chime in here).
Mail order might be the way to go.

Alright I'll take the money burn and order offline I'll get everything else I can from my lfs. Any suggestions on gravel? I was considering Eco complete from this list http://www.aquascapist.com/substrates/choosing-a-planted-aquarium-substrate/

 

[Tippytrampoline]

Well, you can get an idea at least. But there is going to be about 80% plant coverage.

It's difficult to make out, but it could just be my phone. I should do that, it's a great idea!

 

[Scottyhorse]

Yeah, I would order plants from there. That is where Rivercats got hers from, and they are really nice! You could probably get all of yours for under $100 I would think!

Any 'plant' gravel will work fine

 

[Tippytrampoline]

Yeah, I would order plants from there. That is where Rivercats got hers from, and they are really nice! You could probably get all of yours for under $100 I would think!

Any 'plant' gravel will work fine

I have flourite, but I hate it. You literally rinse it for an hour and make no headway in the clear water. Also, I have a loach that likes to dig around so I don't want his little scaleless body getting all scraped up!

 

[Scottyhorse]

I have flourite, but I hate it. You literally rinse it for an hour and make no headway in the clear water. Also, I have a loach that likes to dig around so I don't want his little scaleless body getting all scraped up!

If you have good enough lighting, plain gravel would work. There are also plant substrates that are dirt. You can use just plain dirt too...

 

[Fresh2o]

I have a 20L which I believe has the same footprint as a 29. I used one bag of Eco-Complete and it was barely enough. Depth ranges from 3/4" - 2". Could have used a second bag. Some folks put an inch of organic soil as a base.
I removed the fish and placed them in a spare 6.6g tank while I swapped out play sand for the Eco complete. Was cloudy for a while but the filter cleared up most of it. I don't have loaches; not sure how abrasive Eco complete is to burrowers.

 

[Tippytrampoline]

I like the idea of the AZOO plant grower bed substrate, as it lowers ph without leaching ammonia, and it's mostly soil. Maybe I'll do that as a bed with Eco-complete over some of it. Eco looks just like the mature, refined, perfectly elegant version of regular gravel haha.

 

[Scottyhorse]

I like the idea of the AZOO plant grower bed substrate, as it lowers ph without leaching ammonia, and it's mostly soil. Maybe I'll do that as a bed with Eco-complete over some of it. Eco looks just like the mature, refined, perfectly elegant version of regular gravel haha.

Haha, I am sure really anything would work. Have you decided on plants yet?

 

[Tippytrampoline]

Haha, I am sure really anything would work. Have you decided on plants yet?

I like the look of the mosses and water wisteria, but no, I haven't made any final decisions yet

 

[Dallascowboys16]

Fish with plants

You should be fine buying plants from a tank with fish if you are buying them from a reputable dealer. On the snails if you are really worried assassin snails are a really good option, they can really do a number an a pet snail population. Hope that this helps!