hmmmm water is ok, why is fish dieing?

[tropicfishman]

ok so I spent thenight at my brothers and taught them everything I possibly could about tank maintence and the nitrogen cycle, I tested the water and everything is ok,

ammonia 0
PH 7.4
nitrates 20
nitrites 0
phosphates 2.0

but yet the fish die off left and right, they lost 4 yesterday!!!! Then it hit me, it has to be the live plants, its only a 55 gallon, and its covered in live plants with onlt 1 airstone running, So I figured maybe it was something like CO2 poising, considering the fins were clamped, rapid gilling, weird swimming behaviors, so we installed a power head and the fish seem happier, I also took the plants out and sold them to the neighbors, is it possible it was CO2?

 

[Hara]

Live plants don't kill fish.

 

[JDogg]

Live plants don't kill fish.

they might if crossed with Venus Fly-traps

 

[Hara]

There are any number of reasons those fish could have been dieing, incorrect ph, incorrect acclimation, hostility, bad fish, uncycled tank, bad water changing procedures, severe temperature fluctuation....the list is endless. You have given very little information on the situation for anyone to compile an explanation or helpful response.

 

[tropicfishman]

ok, first off I wasn't blaming the plants themselves, I was blaming the CO2 ( or whatever it is they release at night during photsythesis ) the temp is 78 degrees, the tank has been cycled and running for about 8 months, after a few months bad ammonia spikes occured, i'm guessing a mini cycle, and yes a live plant can kill fish, becuase without proper aeration at night the gasses the excete can suffocate the fish from oxygen deprevation

 

[lovemybarbs]

Did they go from really bad water to really good water?

 

[Hara]

If your theory is correct, adding the powerhead fixed the problem. The plants could have stayed. The plants didnt kill the fish, lack of proper equipment did. What type of filtration was being used? You say there was one airstone running..what else?

Please give more information on the set up. I would hate for someone pondering live plants to get the wrong idea because of misinformation here.

 

[Menagerie]

~moved~

A clearer picture is needed in order to figure out why the fish are dieing.

Answer these Qs to ensure we have as much information as possible about your ailing fish and its environment:

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the best of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).
2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.
3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?
4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gallons per hour if known.
5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?
6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?
7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?
8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?
9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?

yes a live plant can kill fish, becuase without proper aeration at night the gasses the excete can suffocate the fish from oxygen deprevation

The simple answer is no. If you do not have proper aeration, regardless of plants or not, the fish will suffocate and die. Considering plants take in CO2 and release oxygen, the plants are a benefit to any tank.

 

[Menagerie]

After thinking about this and using the following clues

the fish die off left and right.... with onlt 1 airstone running.... the tank has been cycled and running for about 8 months, after a few months bad ammonia spikes occured

the evidence is pointing to poor filtration or perhaps an improper filter. Not enough water turnover? Cleaning the filter too well? Running the filter only part of the day? Since the water quality levels look okay, I'm with Hara in thinking this is an equipment issue.

fins were clamped, rapid gilling, weird swimming behaviors

Those behaviors are associated with suffocation, especially if they were coupled with the fish being near the top.

~moved back to General Forum since this is probably an equipment issue and not illness~

 

[tbonem91]

CO2 production by plants at night does not kill fish. O2 use by plants at night can suffocate fish. If there is an HOB filter running and an airstone, then it is highly unlikely that there was insufficient O2 for the fish unless it was heavily stocked with both plants and fish.

 

[malkore]

but plant's use of O2 at night is usually a non-issue. Only if there's zero surface agitation, and thus no gas exchange, would that happen.

But since an airstone was going at night, I have zero doubt that there was plenty of oxygen in the tank. and CO2 levels don't affect fish until they are extremely high..and you mention no CO2 injection in the tank, so it wasn't that.

its not the live plants...its something else. disease, contamination, inaccurate test kits leading to a false sense of security.

I have zero surface agitation 40ppm of CO2 running 24 hours a day, and my fish never gasp for oxygen over night. NEVER.

 

[u2_Crazy]

Since you say they were already running an airstone in this planted tank I doubt that the cause was CO2. Were they injecting co2 into the tank? what levels were the co2? do you have the hardness and ph levels from when the fish were dying?

I fear removing the plants and adding the powerhead will not be the end of the fish loss.

BTW, many planted tanks have little surface agitation during the day, only running a small airstone at night.

 

[JustOneMore20]

You never mentioned the stocking or what died....

We need more info to help you...answer the questions listed above.

 

[hsherman1986]

five of my eight tanks are planted. The only thing I have ever lost fish to was internal parasites, and ick. I have a really hard time believing that the live lants alone killed the fish. I run one airstone along with the hob filters on two of the tanks, my 55 has one airstone, a bubble wall, and two hob filters, and my two 10g are both running ugf.

I would agree with everyone else when they say it was improper equipment, not the plants.

 

[Elmware2000]

I thought plants used CO2 and produced O2?

 

[rich311k]

I thought plants used CO2 and produced O2?

They do when they are photosynthesizing during lighted periods. At night they use O2 to respirate just like most other living things.

 

[tropicfishman]

HEREAS THE COMPLETE SETUP: LOL

15- 20 mollies, platys and fancy guppies and 1 ramshorn snail

filtration: regent 55 gallon filter on right side

Lighting: two perfecto 24 inch hoods ( wattage not known )

heating: 100 watt

gravel: 35lbs of brown gravel

plants: large amazon sword, cabomba, and what was said to be anachris but I'm doubting wetehr it is

aeration: 22 cfm aqua tech air pump w/ 1.25" airstone in top right corner

lighting schedule: they still believe the fish need shade and naps???? don't ask, so they turn them off and on irregulary

PH 7.4
ammonia 0
nitrite 0
nitrate 40
phosphate 2.0

anything else???? LOL oh and the stand is ablack cheapy from walmart, I think thats everything

 

[fish_4_all]

Here is a thought on the plant issue. If it overgrown like you say, it might be nothing more than a mtter of not enough room for the fish to move around. Also, with that much plant mass, dead leaves and decaying matter on the bottom could be causing massive ammonia spikes which can kill fish within hours.

That would explain why a powerhead helped the fish because it dispersed the massive concentrations of ammonia in certain areas. And why taking the plants out would help so much.

If they have been doing the proper water changes and such, it might have just been a matter of pruning the plants and vacuming the gravel to prevent the die off.

 

[tbonem91]

does he dechlorinate his water?

does he use cleaning chemicals on the outside glass of the tank or anywhere else near it?

since you only have a single hob all the way on one side, there could definitly be circulation and stagnation issues with the water - which is why adding the power head might have helped. Moving the filter to the center of the tank might improve conditions some...

 

[Menagerie]

HEREAS THE COMPLETE SETUP: LOL

anything else???? LOL

Why is that "lol"? We're all here to help. If you are not taking this seriously, we'll stop taking it seriously. We all like to have fun at AA, but your topic deals with fish deaths and many members are taking time out from helping other people to help you. If this is not serious to you, then say so and we will all stop wasting our time.

Getting back on topic, which is your brother’s problematic tank. Aside from possible plant over growth and not enough water filtration per hour, questions 6-9 may shed additional light on the plight of your brother's fish.

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?
7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?
8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?
9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?

If possible, have your brother come to AA, since he knows the tank better than you do, as it is hard to give advice through a third party.