Jchillin
Aquarium Advice Addict
I haven't forgotten you guys...that thing is deep in the archives. I'm close to it though. 
How effective are "biological additives"?
- Thread starter Staples McJesus
- Start date
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Jchillin
Aquarium Advice Addict
Heh, I found both of them:
Biological Additives discussion, circa 2005
The other Biological Additives debate
I found both to be very interesting.
Enjoy.
Biological Additives discussion, circa 2005
The other Biological Additives debate
I found both to be very interesting.
Enjoy.
G
Guest
Guest
i am actually considering filling 7 bowls of water treated with dechlor and a single dead shrimp and running tests on the following
Bowl 1: no additives
Bowl 2: Cycle
Bowl 3: Stability
Bowl 4: StressZyme
Bowl 5: seeded filter floss
Bowl 6: Store brand Bio additive
Bowl 7: BioSpira
It will be about 4 weeks before I can start this experiment, but i was thinking 7 .5 gallon bowls with either 1 dead shrimp or 1 live danio...
Would anyone be interested in seeing this experiment? would it be worth waiting 4 weeks to you all? I have the finances. I'd love input on making it as scientific as possible.
Bowl 1: no additives
Bowl 2: Cycle
Bowl 3: Stability
Bowl 4: StressZyme
Bowl 5: seeded filter floss
Bowl 6: Store brand Bio additive
Bowl 7: BioSpira
It will be about 4 weeks before I can start this experiment, but i was thinking 7 .5 gallon bowls with either 1 dead shrimp or 1 live danio...
Would anyone be interested in seeing this experiment? would it be worth waiting 4 weeks to you all? I have the finances. I'd love input on making it as scientific as possible.
FishyPeanut said:
If you were to try this you would need filters on each one of them. Filter material (sponges, ceramic rings...) are great places for bacterial colonies to establish themselves. I would advice against using live danios for experimental purposes though....No need for experiments really, there are plenty of methods to cycle that work fine without adding live fish.
My first tank I cycled.......by throwing in a small piece of raw beef. Yes, beef, works as good as shrimp and doesn't smell as bad imo. The tank was planted from day 1 and was cycled in 3 weeks.
My second tank I cycled by running a spongefilter in my first tank, then putting it in the second tank and let it run simultaneously with the 2nd tank's filter, together with small stock of fish. Never had any ammonia readings in 2nd tank. After a while I just removed the sponge filter again since the bacterial colonies had established on my main filter.
joannde
Aquarium Advice Addict
JC - Cycle actually produced bacteria ! that was a surprise its too bad the actual species couldn't be identified
FishyP - you're amazing for volunteering to do this. I'm a Bio-Spira fan but given the expense and difficulty in obtaining it (longer drive) it would be very interesting to see if any of the other products work. I do keep some Bio-Spira in the fridge just in case I need to revive a tank or cycle a tank quickly, but if the other products work they might be a nice backup. Long story short - yes, I'd be interested and the 4 wks would be worth the wait. you're a GEM !
its too bad the actual species couldn't be identifiedFishyP - you're amazing for volunteering to do this. I'm a Bio-Spira fan but given the expense and difficulty in obtaining it (longer drive) it would be very interesting to see if any of the other products work. I do keep some Bio-Spira in the fridge just in case I need to revive a tank or cycle a tank quickly, but if the other products work they might be a nice backup. Long story short - yes, I'd be interested and the 4 wks would be worth the wait. you're a GEM !
Jchillin
Aquarium Advice Addict
Joannde - All of the product manufacturer's identified there ingredients except Seachem, which they stated was proprietary info. Cycle was more than happy to state they provide bacteria but it is in it's dormant form (as noted by the tests by Patagonia).
G
Guest
Guest
i have some home made sponge filters i can use. but i was under the impression you could cycle even a goldfish bowl.
i want to be as scientific as possible. what if i added a few additional bowls with filters and some of the products and one with a filter and no product?
i want to be as scientific as possible. what if i added a few additional bowls with filters and some of the products and one with a filter and no product?
joannde said:JC - Cycle actually produced bacteria ! that was a surprise
thats the problem, what bacteria was in there? i don't believe on the bottle of cycle it states "sterial water". so who knows what bacteria grew. it could be ecoli (sp?) for all we know.
FishyPeanut said:
Yes you can cycle even a goldfish bowl without a sponge filter I pressume, but I wouldn't use any live fish. If you have all the same set-ups with for instance just the bowls, to which you add a product and a shrimp, there is no need to perform the same experiment with live fish. Fish will not produce better ammonia to cycle your tank then a rotting shrimp.......maybe less and more proportioned to the size of the bowl, but it won't affect the comparing study.
You can also use a bottle of ammonia and dose the same amount in each bowl.
Is it clear that I have something against using live fish for this?
Anyway, good luck if you decide to try it!!! Would be interesting to see how many products that are on the market don't work
Jchillin
Aquarium Advice Addict
rkilling1 said:joannde said:JC - Cycle actually produced bacteria ! that was a surprise
thats the problem, what bacteria was in there? i don't believe on the bottle of cycle it states "sterial water". so who knows what bacteria grew. it could be ecoli (sp?) for all we know.
They did, they state their product contains nitrosomas and nitrobacter.
joannde
Aquarium Advice Addict
I have to wonder why Cycle didn't help me at all when I was first setting up the tank - puzzling to say the least.
Jchillin
Aquarium Advice Addict
joannde said:
Think of it this way: Cycle is providing the exact same bacteria in the same form that is already present on the surfaces of everything (dormant). In order to wake up these babies, you need a healthy amount of ammonia. Since Cycle is primarily used during a standard cycle (with fish), by reducing the amount of ammonia via PWC's, you are limiting the amount of ammonia that is being shared by all. Since there is so little ammonia to go around, these guys will stay dormant or, if they do get a chance to wake up, they are likely to starve eventually. Most likely, they just never get a chance to wake up until much later in the tanks development.
It seems to me that Cycle is better suited for a fishless cycle rather than one with fish.
G
Guest
Guest
moving to another thread.
joannde
Aquarium Advice Addict
Jchillin said:
I WAS doing a fishless cycle - had ammonia up to 4ppm for a week then it started getting converted. I think a week is about the standard time even without the use of additives, so again, I'm not sure the Cycle did anything. And I know it didn't help my nitrites - they spiked and stayed there for 3 weeks before I gave up, did a water change and added Bio-Spira.
Jchillin said:rkilling1 said:joannde said:JC - Cycle actually produced bacteria ! that was a surprise
thats the problem, what bacteria was in there? i don't believe on the bottle of cycle it states "sterial water". so who knows what bacteria grew. it could be ecoli (sp?) for all we know.
They did, they state their product contains nitrosomas and nitrobacter.
sorry if i wasn't clear on my statement. i was refering to growing bacteria in pertry dishes. in the threads you posted, they grew bacteria. my statement was how do we know what bacteria grew. the bateria that grew could have been something else besides what can be used in a fish tank.
