I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?!

[Crepe]

Don't splurge too much on equipment XD. In a month I spent 80 bucks on a new canister filter and 130 on a light fixture (Awesome though, 48 watts of T5HO with high polished parabolic reflector). 210 went by fast.

 

[michaelg210]

Ok all, here is the latest, i may have screwed it up, but i don't think so....

looking, looking, and looking for a filter for my small 2.5 G tank and finally i figured it out, for what i will spend on the filter i wanted, red sea Nano Hang-On Filter - Clear, which i could not find anywhere except on line, i might as well spring for a 5 gal tank, it'sa wash.... especially after shipping.

so i got a 5.5 g tank, put giovanni (time you learned his name) in a holding bowl, just picked up the gravel, put it in the new tank, put the toy bridge, heater, thermometer, and filter in the tank, i did not clean anything, no rinse....

added a little H2O, added my liquid gold, i mean prime - thanks guys for the tip - and pulled the famous, just-add-water trick.

The Tom mini internal filter, works perfect on the highest setting, and the betta is fine...

(wish i would have read your 50 percent water changes 2x daily first, cause now i have MORE water to take out)

I shall proceed, ask more questions, check, report, and continue proceeding..

THANKS....

mjg

 

[michaelg210]

Water changes, water changes, water changes, and more water changes.

50% twice a day! You'll be cycled in a couple weeks. An aquaclear hob will cycle fast that way too, and will be the best filter you can buy if your not already using something better.

I saw some, but 1. nothing small in that line, 2.too pricey for me right now, and even with the 5.5g, i am sure Giovanni would be swirling like in a toilet....

 

[michaelg210]

Day One: 0639 CST

One 50 percent water change down; ~ one hundred nineteen to go......

 

[michaelg210]

WOW, Test kit is here already, they musta screwed up and shipped overnight.

I am sure i will have many questions but at a glance, here are a few:

PH Testing

1. What is optimal PH level for a betta?


4. Instructions indicate PHup or PHdown can be used to raise / lower levels. It appears this is something purchased separately, correct?

I assume if purchased, this kit will state approximately many drops per gallon to lower the PH ppm xx number of units....i.e. 1 drop per gallon will lower ph content approximately .01 units or whatever?


High PH Testing

I assume this is for testing if the PH level is higher than 7.4 ppm


Ammonia Testing

Do I try to keep ammonia level to 4 ppm?


NitrIte Testing

Guess I just keep an eye on this to know where I am at in the cycle, partial water changes can help lower or I guess add aquarium salt to minimize toxicity.

NitrAte Testing

Once cycled, this is something I just need to keep an eye on and keep to ??? level with water changes and or Nitra Zorb?
Is this something you all can advise off the top of your heads or do I need to start searching in the forum?

Thanks again,

mjg

 

[Tivaala]

Ammonia Testing

Do I try to keep ammonia level to 4 ppm?


mjg

giovanni probably wont thank you for it. your gonna have to have some amounts of ammonia while your cycle is kicking off but if you try and keep it that high he's really not going to last long. and its not a nice way to die. once your cycle is done you want zero, nada, zip ammonia. but cycling with fish...hmmn. needs some to kick cycle in but not so much you kill your fish. hopefully some of the others will get back soon on how to work it.

 

[HN1]

WOW, Test kit is here already, they musta screwed up and shipped overnight.

I am sure i will have many questions but at a glance, here are a few:

PH Testing

1. What is optimal PH level for a betta? Stable


4. Instructions indicate PHup or PHdown can be used to raise / lower levels. It appears this is something purchased separately, correct?

I assume if purchased, this kit will state approximately many drops per gallon to lower the PH ppm xx number of units....i.e. 1 drop per gallon will lower ph content approximately .01 units or whatever? See #1. No reason to adjust your pH 99.99% of the time.


High PH Testing

I assume this is for testing if the PH level is higher than 7.4 ppm Correct. Depending on your source water, you'll likely only use the low or high. Here's a good baseline test for ya... get a cup of water from whatever source (tap, well, ro) goes into your tank. Let it sit out until tomorrow afternoon and test it. That will tell you what your true baseline pH is.


Ammonia Testing

Do I try to keep ammonia level to 4 ppm? Absolutely not. You have fish so you want zero. Do water changes if over .25 ppm. They will NOT delay the cycle. Please read post #1.


NitrIte Testing

Guess I just keep an eye on this to know where I am at in the cycle, partial water changes can help lower or I guess add aquarium salt to minimize toxicity. If you do proper water changes, this won't be an issue. Deal with this in conjunction with any ammonia. Salt isn't needed. Let the debate begin!

NitrAte Testing

Once cycled, this is something I just need to keep an eye on and keep to ??? level with water changes and or Nitra Zorb?
Is this something you all can advise off the top of your heads or do I need to start searching in the forum? If you do weekly (or twice weekly) PWCs, they shouldn't be a problem with your betta tank.

Thanks again,

mjg

My random thoughts in red.

 

[michaelg210]

My random thoughts in red.

Hmm.. gotta figure out this "multi-quote thingamajig"

Anyway, thank you all for your prompt replies.... and the results are in.....

prior to 50% water change, (which I last did this a.m., thanks for the tip ILIKEFISH)

Ammonia: .25 ppm
PH: 7.6 ppm
NitrIte: 0

 

[michaelg210]

giovanni probably wont thank you for it. your gonna have to have some amounts of ammonia while your cycle is kicking off but if you try and keep it that high he's really not going to last long. and its not a nice way to die. once your cycle is done you want zero, nada, zip ammonia. but cycling with fish...hmmn. needs some to kick cycle in but not so much you kill your fish. hopefully some of the others will get back soon on how to work it.

needs some to kick cycle in but not so much you kill your fish.

OK, I get it now.... some ammonia, but , .25 ppm, right?

so it now should be at .125 or so on a 50% change, right?

Man this is really interesting....

 

[Tivaala]

just to recap on what HN1 said - .25 is your max. do not go above and try for zero. water change, water change water change. basicaly put a revolving door in your tank
fish + ammonia = dead fish.

 

[michaelg210]

just to recap on what HN1 said - .25 is your max. do not go above and try for zero. water change, water change water change. basicaly put a revolving door in your tank
fish + ammonia = dead fish.

ok, so then perhaps I should do like 65% water changes? The last change was 0600 hours or so today, (previous was perhaps 10 hours prior to that).

So from 0600 today to some 14 hours after a 50% change, the level was back up to .25

I (perhaps incorrectly) assume then that the level climbs to .25 in 12 - 14 hours. Due to my job, this is VERY difficult on my schedule, at least insofar as consistency is concerned. My goal then is to change the hydrogen/oxygen-covalently-bonded solution a minimum of 2x per day at a minimum of 50%.

Perhaps I should test it now and then again in the am to test my ammonia theory...

ideas?

 

[mfdrookie516]

My goal then is to change the hydrogen/oxygen-covalently-bonded solution a minimum of 2x per day at a minimum of 50%.

You're getting there... btw, i love the terminology

You want to aim for the least amount of ammonia possible. While tivaala is correct in saying that you'll have to have some ammonia to cycle the tank, dont even worry about that part (it'll take care of itself). Just test your water. You may not have to do twice daily, you may actually need to do more than twice. Only your test kit will determine that. As far as the rate in which the ammonia will rise, it all determines on the fish. THe less you feed, the less waste the fish will produce, therefore creating less ammonia. Sounds like you're doing a great job so far. Just test test test and once the ammonia gets to .25ppm or more, do a 50% PWC.

 

[michaelg210]

Rock-n-Roll........ It's ON!!

You're getting there... btw, i love the terminology

You want to aim for the least amount of ammonia possible. While tivaala is correct in saying that you'll have to have some ammonia to cycle the tank, dont even worry about that part (it'll take care of itself). Just test your water. You may not have to do twice daily, you may actually need to do more than twice. Only your test kit will determine that. As far as the rate in which the ammonia will rise, it all determines on the fish. THe less you feed, the less waste the fish will produce, therefore creating less ammonia. Sounds like you're doing a great job so far. Just test test test and once the ammonia gets to .25ppm or more, do a 50% PWC.

After last night's water change, Ammonia was still at .125. I happened to still be up just past midnight so scooped out and replaced a quick 80 oz or so of H20.

0600 today, AFTER an ~ 60 percent water change, NH3 was at ZERO.... YEAH!!! I think I got this now, thanks to all of the articles that simplified it and postings / replies....

FYI, wife doesn't know about the test kit, (yet).... so it a covert operation. She is already unhappy with the 5G tank, says I should just throw him in the ocean, cause that's how big his tank will end up anyway at the rate i am going, (really only 2 tank upgrades... bowl to 2.5 now to 5G)

Thanks again...

 

[HN1]

Kudos to you for reading and dedicating to what is needed for your fish!

Swap the 5 out for a 10 someday and see if the wife notices. lol

 

[michaelg210]

Kudos to you for reading and dedicating to what is needed for your fish!

Swap the 5 out for a 10 someday and see if the wife notices. lol

Funny, when she noticed the 2.5 to 5.5 swap, she looked at it and asked if i bought ANOTHER tank... told her no, I think he shrunk from the medicine i gave him...lol, did not fly....

Anyway, noticed yesterday going thru posts that originally when i posted
re: my filter being to strong for the 2.5 your reply was...to try "ann air operated box filter or just a tiny powerhead with a sponge attachment. Bettas need almost still water so your flow is probably stressing him out a bit. I would ultimately just spring for at least a 5g tank"

Told you that was some of the best advice I had gotten so far...

Either way, figured out why the betta was sick last week... had to have been the NO3 content... I was changing out tank 100 percent and scrubbing tank and all in it with rough sponge.... this about every 4 - 5 days, so the ammonia must have been continually climbing and it was probably taking it's toll on him.... I have been adding betta fix for the last several water changes... he seems to be doing MUCH better....

Also, the bank i go to had a betta in a bowl with a plant.. no gravel or nothing... yesterday noticed it was gone and asked about it.... died... asked how long they had it, said a few months... I NOW know what probably happened... made me a little angry, irresponsible fish-keeping like that, but then, that was me just a week ago...

Thanks again for all the help and encouragement.
Crepe
Aquarium Advice Freak

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 438

Try an air operated box filter or just a tiny powerhead with a sponge attachment. Bettas need almost still water so your flow is probably stressing him out a bit. I would ultimately just spring for at least a 5g tank.

 

[michaelg210]

You're getting there... btw, i love the terminology

You want to aim for the least amount of ammonia possible. While tivaala is correct in saying that you'll have to have some ammonia to cycle the tank, dont even worry about that part (it'll take care of itself). Just test your water. You may not have to do twice daily, you may actually need to do more than twice. Only your test kit will determine that. As far as the rate in which the ammonia will rise, it all determines on the fish. THe less you feed, the less waste the fish will produce, therefore creating less ammonia. Sounds like you're doing a great job so far. Just test test test and once the ammonia gets to .25ppm or more, do a 50% PWC.

Hello all, I am not sure how to reply to everyone who has been so helpful. (I don't think I am supposed to start a new thread right?).

Anyway, if anyone is following The Giovanni Saga, tonight's test and 60% PWC yielded the following results:

NO3, right at about .25, last change was, again approximately 14 hours ago, so it seems if I can sneak in a minnie in between I will just have to keep it at < or = to .25 (The mini change in between showed up next morning at .125).

Obviously, still no sign of NitrItes. I do not even think I am going to test for it anymore until the ammonia starts showing significant improvement...

Only thing I don't get is the PH... I did a high PH and it was at about 8.2. Just 24 hours ago it was at 7.6. Is this something I need to worry about?

 

[HN1]

Test your source pH by letting a treated cup of source water sit out overnight. Then test it. The release of CO2 tends to increase the pH so if you test it too soon, you'll get a false low.

 

[michaelg210]

ty, i already have a little 10ml cup out at your recent suggestion. Been out over an hour. Will 0600 tomorrow work ok? Will let you know the results... you told me "consistancy", but that seemed a somewhat significant change, or perhaps not, just did not know what it means, if anything... you can reply tomorrow if you like after I update you.

 

[mfdrookie516]

the ph probably will not be stable until your cycle is complete. im not sure of the chemical aspect of it, but i believe it has something to do with ammonia altering the ph... again, not sure, but I do know ph bounces around a bit during a cycle

 

[Tivaala]

Ammonia becomes increasingly more toxic in basic (alkaline) water because of ions. There are two types of ammonia ions. The most dangerous is NH3 or ammonia that is unionized. Ionized ammonia is called ammonium and is represented as NH4+. Ammonium is far less dangerous to aquarium fish.
How Does Ammonia Convert into Ammonium?
In acidic water ammonia ions NH3 react with water to create ammonium ions NH4+ and hydroxyl ions OH-. When water is basic the reaction goes the opposite way because there is already an abundance of hydroxyl ions present in basic water. Instead of creating ammonium NH4+ out of ammonia NH3 and water H2O the hydroxyl ions OH- split from ammonium NH4+ to create ammonia NH3 and water H2O.

What Does All This Mean?
What this means is, in basic water (pH higher then 7.0) it’s possible for less harmful ammonium to convert into dangerous ammonia. If your pH is basic you will have to be more diligent regarding your water changes and water-testing regimen. If you have acidic water don’t think you get off that easy. Ammonia is a serious killer and even at low levels it can cause irreversible damage or death to your fish. keeping your ammonia levels at 0 is very important.



Also
A logarithmic scale measures ten-fold. Aquarists often forget how important this is when tampering with their pH levels. This means a pH of 6.0 is ten times more acidic then a pH of 7.0 and a pH of 5.0 is then 100 times more acidic then that 7.0 pH level. Once you understand this you realize it is often safer to keep the pH stable even if it is a little outside of the desired range. Once aquarists begin shifting their pH up or down, especially quickly, they tend to experience greater instances of illness or sudden death among their fish. The rule of thumb is keep any pH fluctuations down to less then 0.2 within a 24 hour period to avoid stress induced by rapid or severe fluctuations.




(handy having all these chemistry textbooks lying around! now ive picked them up i might actually start using them to do the revision im supposed to be doing and i decided to spare you the referencing list i found myself typing)