I need advice from you pros

[soeastbiker]

We have a 30 gal,bow front tank,with a 60 gal Tetra Whisper Power filter(330gph). With about 30 lbs of blue gravel.We bought the entire set-up in Feb of this year(10 months ago) at the local PetSmart. We house our turtle,"Scooter" in it. I've had him since he was the size of a nickel and I guess his age to be near 9 or 10 years. No fish inhabit this tank,but once we put 25 small goldfish in with him and he consumed them all.I filled it with water right out of the tub faucet using a 2 gal bucket,put his favorite 2 rocks he has known all of his life,in with him and 3 red bricks. 2 bricks on edge, about 5 inches apart,and one on top of them,in the centerline, laying flat to emulate a cave for him yet,we are able to observe him inside this arrangement as the 2 bottom bricks have 3 holes in each one and he occasionally peeps out throught them. Now here's the weird part. From the date of purchase last Feburary, untill a week ago, the water stayed abosolutely clean and clear,even after topping it off as it evaporated with the same tap water. Then one morning,suddenly the water began to get cloudy and foggy. I did some surfing online and it was suggested I use some "AquaSafe". All that did was put a layer of scum on the surface. By the 3rd day,visibility was near zero.(NOTE* in this long duration of the same water I did change the filters to new ones about 4 times) I talked to the fish department rep at PetSmart and she recommended I take 25% of the water out and refill it and add new filters. I took all the water out and the blue gravel and poured the black 2 inches of dirty water out and cleaned the entire inside of the glass with windex and dried it. I set it back up on the stand and scooped all the gravel back into the tank, minus more black waste water, that had accumulated in the 5 gal plastic trash can that I had washed out specifically to hold the gravel as I completed this operation. I then refilled the aquarium to the top with the same old tap water from the tub as I had on the original purchase date. I replaced Scooter and all of his familiar rocks and the Tetra Power filters with new cartridges and fired it up. It was amazingly crystal clear and Scooter went about examining every square inch of his habitat to be sure I didn't take him on another road trip and that this was still his territory.We were overjoyed that the aesthetics were returned to his tank, and our pleasure of watching him do his turtle things. Then "it" struck again. Approx. 3 days passed and the haze returned and then by the next morning it was beyond foggy again. I did everything over again that I had just done 3 days before,but added a heavy rinsing of the gravel also,but left out the Aquasafe, and had the same results...ultra clean and clear...Turtle and humanoids, all satisfied. But, yet another 72 hrs passed, and last night "it" began all over again!!! We used logical thought as to why it could be occuring and we came to the conclusion by observation that the pump wasn't putting out near as much water as it had in the past,soI went to PetSmart again to seek advice,but none was to be had, as it is so close to Christmas, the regular fish rep was off work. I purchased another filter system,identical to the previous on,except they have added the free magnetic algae scraper and 2 pieces of foam that slides in front of the 2 filters. I slapped it all together and plugged it in and it went right to work,but 5 1/2 hours later,the water still has a heavy haze in it, and shows no sign of dispersing. What can I do? Is it the water hardness? Is the turtle emitting his famous,"phenolalkalinic acid" in protestation of being moved out of his safety zone,not once, but twice?(I have sought help on a turtle forum and they were extremely nasty and condescending to me and my query on the topic and became so pompous, that I had to break out the Thesaurus and scold the administrator in kind as he had me) Should I run both, the new and older pump, in unison to see if it is a filtration issue?Should I remove the water once again and replace it with distilled water? I really need some help on this.[/i]

 

[soeastbiker]

I tried to upload a pic of the tank at the 6 to 7 month juncture but you limit size to 100 and I have no way to resize my jpeg

 

[TankGirl]

Welcome to AA!!

I do not think you will find any scolding going on here, and I am sorry you had that experience - you come for advice and that is what you will get.

I have some theories about the cloudiness, and they relate to the nitrogen cycle and the healthy bacteria that you may be lacking with all of the filter changing, but I'll move this thread over to General FW and I am confident you will get some great suggestions. We have a turtle keeper or two, at least one expert on them, so we'll get to the bottom of this for you. Congrats on the long life of your turtle!

 

[BrianNY]

Well I'm no turtle expert but I do know it's very difficult to keep relatively small environments clean for them. Logic tells me that the turtles normal biological output isn't being adaquately handled by the filters.

How many gallons of water is the tank holding and how large is the turtle? Just a suggestion but I'd try running a diatom filter every other day or so. It filters particulate matter down to 1 micron and actually polishes the water. Good luck and let us know how you make out.

 

[severum mama]

Would it be cheaper to buy a diatom filter or just get a bigger tank to handle the bioload? I work with people with disabilities and my work is letting me start an aquarium class for some of our clients. Anyway, I got a couple of yellow bellied sliders donated to my work, and they came in a 35 gallon tank. It was really sad because I knew they needed a bigger tank, but since I was taking care of them with their money, it was a while before I could get them a bigger one. I ended up finding a used, cheap tank (60 gallons) and they are way happier, and it is much easier to keep the water clean. 8) I don't know much about turtles really (but I know I am caring for them better than the previous owner) but a bigger tank has worked wonders for the water quality.

 

[Toirtis]

Sounds like a bacterial bloom...but...

What species of turtle (I am guessing probably RES)? How big is he now (at 10 years of age, he should be a good 8"-10" carapace length, and must be getting a bit crowded in that tank)? What are you typically feeding as his diet (I am guessing feeding in his tank as opposed to another container)? You have the standard heat spot basking lamp and UV tubes, I assume? What are your photoperiods?

 

[soeastbiker]

Thank you very much for responding as you have, "TankGirl". How would one go about obtaining"healthy bacteria"? Responding to, "BrianNY","severum mama",and "Toirtis" and to anyone else that might be of help, and to fill in any info not already included.... a 39 gallon tank should be a sufficient size for "Scooter",especially since his growth has been stunted somewhat,by his time spent first in a Wal-Mart plastic dishpan (approx. 12"x12"x6"deep) for about 1year,then a Wal-Mart plastic tote bin(approx.15 gallon) for about 4 to 5 years then,to a 30 gallon aquarium for about 6 to 8 months, then a 55 gallon aquarium for about 1 1/2 years,then to a 10 gallon aquarium for about 1 year,with road trips in a bucket in between these habitats,then into the 39 gallon aquarium he is presently occupying.He is a stinkpot (Stenotherus odoratus)approx. 5" long x 4 1/2" wide with his head retracted. So, growth,lack of,or his size has never been an issue vs.the size of aquarium and I have always went with overkill on the filtration.(39 gal tank w/60gal pump)He hates roadtrips.I've had him since he was virtually a baby,he really doesn't know what he is. His environment can be viewed here: http://photobucket.com/albums/v334/soeastbiker/ I still have the previously purchased 60 gal Tetra Whisper Power filter(330gph) pump($46.99) that will go on the opposite end of the tank to double the gph if you think that it is needed.He has always preferred to be underwater 99.9999% of the time.His diet consists of generic reptile/turtle pellets and an occasional,once in a blue moon,treat of a fat nightcrawler that has him going nutso whenever you walk near his tank after he has had one,thinking another is coming his way.I have a 36",single,UV tube light and his "photoperiods" are as wacky and unstructured as mine are. If more info is needed to assist in this evaluation,do not hesitate to post a response or e-mail me directly soeastbiker@aol.com and be sure to put something in the subject line relative to the topic.

 

[BrianNY]

I couldn't access the pic southeastbiker. However, my #1 suspect is the gravel. It's very easy for bits of uneaten food to become trapped and decay. You didn't mention how often and how much water you change. Here's what I would try.

Begin by doing 50% water changes with gravel vacs daily. If the problem persists I'd replace all of the gravel. I might even consider using sand as it's more difficult for food and mucous to work its way into it.

A diatom filter can be bought from bigalsonline for around $90. I'm guessing you have less than 20gal of water in the tank. You'd probably filter all that water 20 times over in a half hour.

 

[soeastbiker]

I'm a-gittin some help from the pros now!!!

I appreciate the comeback Brian.You should be able to hit the link now that I (oops!) made it available for public sharing! http://photobucket.com/albums/v334/soeastbiker/ 3 days ago I removed all the gravel and rinsed it thru a colander in the kitchen sink. I've never needed to change the water(other than topping off evaporation losses) untill recently and I've had to do that every 3 days.It looks like I plan to take 50% of it out today, 12/24, and refill it. A diatom filter isn't in the budget right now so, the 2nd pump will be utilized today cuz the white-ish haze is getting slowly thicker. But, I may need to factor in, and share with ya'll, the water around here is extremely hard. Try to visualize where I am geographically and you might have an even better take on the water quality.I am 35 miles south of Philly, approx 5miles from Wilmington,De, and not far from a huge Dupont plant that HAS to be a major industrial polluter,and right across the river from New Jersey.As a Floridian,I've seen iron or sulfur well water, that was not as heavy as this city water.

 

[turboTSI]

turtles are VERY dirty.. u need more filtration then that.. I would either get a pond filter orr add another hob or better yet a canister filter...

u do need to do water changes atleast 1/3 of the tank a week (depending how high u fill the tank)

u also need to use aquasafe to remove any chlorine etc but u add that to the tank THEN add your water this helps to mix it up.. if u just toss the aquasafe in it will just sit on the top doing nothing..

I would suggest u move him to atleast a 55g and save the heart ache.. but he should be fine if u actually do waterchanges clean the gravel every other week (use a siphon.. u dont want to rinse yoru gravel then u loose all your good bacteria)

also one last thing.. how deep is yrou gravel bed I would suggest no more then 3/4-1" anything more and u can get a bad prob with amonia and bacteria build up in the gravel...

Dave

 

[soeastbiker]

I will indeed add another hob filter system today.Exellent advice on the Aquasafe too,Dave.My gravel is pretty much bacteria free,good or bad. Right now and I need a source of good bacteria to assist the water. I have added pics of the cloudiness to the photobucket link,with and w/o the flash turned on to show just how thick the haze is getting,but trust me, last week before the 1st water change it was 3 times as thick. http://photobucket.com/albums/v334/soeastbiker/ scroll down and click on image for full size.

 

[turboTSI]

that is a good size tank for him but u should get a filstar xp3 and start doing 1/3 water changes also he dont appear to be a fully aquatic turtle so I would deff lower the water level so he can go up and stick is snout out a bit better to get a good breath

Dave

 

[soeastbiker]

It's not in the budget. And ol' Scooter aint never had no problem catching a hit of O2. I'll holler at ya'll afterwhile when I get done doin the do with the water n extra pump addition.

 

[TomK2]

I may have missed it in your original post ? you mentioned top-off water addition, but you did not mention regular water changes or gravel vaccuuming? If so, then it is amazing that you went so long without cloudiness. I would assume you have a bacterial bloom - you need to change the water and clean the gravel. Probably several times. It is much easier to use a gravel vac than removing the gravel, but I guess with a turtle it is not life threatening to drain the tank! Still, with a gravel vac you can do water changes and gravel cleaning easily and regularly. Check out the Python Gravel vac! Clean the filter too - but leave the filters bio-media just rinsed with old tank water to preserve the bio-filter. Since trutles breath air, I doubt ammonia and nitrite spikes would kill him but it would likely be irritating to his eyes. From your picture I could see that the tank was rather full of water. Don't turtles like to have dry areas to climb up on? I realize that you can't lower the water level and still use your existing aquarium filter. Now that things have gotten a little out of whack, it will probably be a number of days of water changes and gravel vacs before it settles back down. You are lucky tho - if you had fish a problem like this could kill a lot of them - your turtle is just being a little inconvenienced now. Kind of like having some home improvements being done.

 

[soeastbiker]

Hi,Tom. No, I never mentioned regular water changes.Indeed,now as I am being enlightened by this sites' contents,I have been very lucky to go 10 months w/o any need for maintenence other than topping off the water. I have changed the water 3 times in 9 days and washed the gravel out,one colander full at a time,as well as had the tank completely empty, and on the floor, off of it's stand, and cleaned it 'till it was like brand new,twice in 9 days.Gravel vacs and high-tech pumps aren't in the budget right now."Scooter" is only irritated when I remove him from the tank to clean it or move anything around,and we both hate it when it's cloudy and hazy.He doesnt like his home fiddled with at all.From my own experience with him, and the facts found at this link, confims to me what he likes. <www.trentu.ca/biology/turtlewatch/stinkpot.htm> **(You will have to copy&paste that entire link,minus the arrows, to your browser cuz the ".ca" breaks it up)

I brought him home when he was the size of a nickel and he has always wanted to be underwater since day one.He didn't dig the basking light treatment at all.His favorite pastime is chasing and devouring goldfish.

I let his responses,negative,or positive,dictate how he lived and after about 9 years, we know each other pretty good.I am thinking about getting a couple of victims for him to play with and test just how,if at all, the water is screwed up. Here's a link to a picture of the tank the day after buying it brand new,filling it,and dropping him in,up to the 10 month juncture:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/soeastbiker/fishtank1.jpg

This is what it looks like today after a 90% water change and adding a 2nd 60 gal (330gph) Tetra pump filter, it was much,much thicker 3 days and 6 days previously, and yeah, I had to move his hideout a bit and he copped a big old attitude,but he will get over it.(Haze has reduced only by approx 1/3) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v334/soeastbiker/fishtankdirty2.jpg

 

[Wolf]

You should have a some land for him to crawl and bask on. Only Snappers and Softshells can live in a totally aquatic environment. It's so much fun to feed them ghost shrimp, you can get a ton for dirt and while they're in there they eat up leftover food.

BTW, turtles are very messy feeders, you might want to employ a few snails and a crawdad for cleanup detail.

 

[soeastbiker]

Good evening,Wolf, I see that you didnt copy 'n paste the link provided: (www.trentu.ca/biology/turtlewatch/stinkpot.htm) and read the heading titled: HABITS, re: a stinkpot seldom leaves water even to bask. Also, I wrote " I let his responses,negative,or positive,dictate how he lived and after about 9 years, we know each other pretty good." I took him from his enclosure in Florida on a 2 day road trip to Delaware and it's an understatement that he did not like being out of his water...at all! Real Estate isn't going to be the solution for my one and only dilemma,thats been posted repeatedly through the last 2 pages. I see that you're from Thomasville,Ga. My turtle originated on the north side of Lake Jackson approx 30 minutes southeast of Atlanta...kind of a coincidence,but not relative to the inquiry I have made.

 

[soeastbiker]

Oh, I almost forgot!!! Snails and crawdads,or any other life form would not survive a day in his tank."Scooter" would make quick work of them as he is extremely territorial and hawg when it comes to potential grub.I limit his dietary intake to pellets and an occaisional night crawler,which I gave him a fat one for Christmas,this morning. Any other critters are too much a risk for him and his health as he has only experienced the wild for barely a day and that particular day he could have become a yum-yum for many other members in that lake's food chain. So, he hasn't the immunities aquired as a wild turtle would naturally and him getting sick would be a crisis not only for him,but for me as well. I have enough problems as it is.

 

[stusclan]

I kept my res in a baby pool when his 30g. became too small and I started having water quality problems. I had 2 HOB and 2 small fluval drop in filters. This seemed to help, I also did not use a gravel substrate, as this only added to the additional need for more regular cleaning. Cleaning was once daily. When they get old and big, they get messy.

I agree with the water issue, I used to live in that part of the country, never drank the water. Always used bottled or RO when I finally got one.

Good luck.

 

[soeastbiker]

Hi, stusclan!!! Scooter doesn't make much of a mess,waste-wise anyway in his 39 gal. He is approx 5"Lx4"W. I can rake the gravel back and the bottom of the tank is still as clean as new. I'm going to an aquarium pro shop monday to get some questions answered,but since my only problem is hazy,cloudy,water 3 days after I change it, should I go to Wally-World and buy distilled water instead of using this over hardened tap water? By the way, an oil tanker just dumped jillions of gallons of oil in the Delaware river and they've called off the clean up efforts due to the cold weather....is it possible that all municipalities in this area have added chemicals in a overkill way to head off any potential groundwater affectations? God only knows what it's going to do to us.