I should have read how not to start out

[Engel]

But I didn't. I let my tank run for a about week without fish. On day three I did put some bacteria into the tank that Petsmart recommended, but went back on day ten and bought six red minor tetras and five green cories. A week later I bought my main objective... four angel fish. I was reading that Angel fish prefer a Ph round 6.5, and I became concerned because my test strips (I know I know... I NOW know about API) say mine is at least 8.4 In my research I read enough to know that I didn't want to mess with chemicals, and that I didn't want to alter it too quickly, so I bought distilled water, determining to add one gallon with every water change. I have a 40 gallon tank. NOW I'm reading here about cycling, and I'm really nervous about my new babies. I ordered an API master kit for testing. My strips say that my nitrites, and nitrates are zero, and after my first water change with the gallon of distilled my Ph is 7.8 My strips say that my water is soft, and than my alkalinity is ideal. There is nothing that indicates ammonia levels.
So, my question is, can I mitigate any damage by doing daily water changes until I get my test kit in and find out where I stand? Would it harm the fish to do daily water changes? I changed about 10% today.

 

[hdultra]

It wont hurt to do daily water changes.
Make sure you detoxify your tap water with a conditioner.

 

[FishCrazyBenBOMB]

I say just leave the water in there longer let it build up, every time you do a water change it will stress them out because that water isn't exactly the same every time and they have to get use to that.

I say once every 3 days until you get your test kit. 10 to 20 percent.

Also don't add anymore fish because when those angles grow they will be taking up alot of room so your fish stock should be good as of right now.

 

[Tim Wheatley]

The tank is overloaded in quite a bit way with too many fish, so they will pollute their water when they poop and cause themselves to suffer through there being too many in there, that is problem one.

Don't worry about pH, it's better for it to be stable than to be the preferred level. Never use pills to alter pH, all you do is put your tank on a rollercoaster and the pH will constantly change, stressing your fish.

Problem two is obviously that the tank isn't cycled anyway, and won't be able to deal with the polluting poop.

Problem three is that you added too many fish, too quickly. The bacteria (which you don't have yet anyway) which is created during the cycling process can only cope with small changes in load.

In a tank that size you could probably try for two Angels and nothing else, but your maintenance has to be fantastic as does your filtration. Because of their territorial issues I wouldn't put two in though.

Anyway, I'm sure others will advise you on how to try to cycle your tank and try to take care of the fish, but you need less fish or more tanks in my opinion anyway.

 

[fort384]

You need to be changing 50%+ per day until the cycle is complete. Distilled water is a bad idea. Eventually you are going to hit the 0 buffer point and the pH will fall through the floor in a matter of hours at that point. That kind of pH swing will kill your livestock faster than high ammonia levels... Which are deadly in their own right.

Adjusting pH is very tricky--and lowering it safely is way harder than raising it. whatever you do, despite the temptation, don't buy the pH down chemicals. They are one of the worst products out there.

Most fish can tolerate 8.5 pH, although it is on the high side. Stability is better than perfect pH almost always... If you drip acclimate , the fish can adjust.

Angels though are a little more sensitive to pH than most tropicals. I haven't kept them. I am sure some other folks will chime in on this....

 

[Engel]

TIm,
I'm pretty clear already on the problems you listed.... which is why I'm here asking for advice on mitigating the damage.
I'm definately considering bringing back the tetras, and two cories. The cories don't school like I thought. The tetras are great, but one of them keeps breaking away from the school to agitate the angels. I can identify him, but when I try to catch him to bring him back they FLY together, and I lose him again. Rather just not have them.
Now, just to clarify, you are saying that four angels in a 40 gallon is overcrowded?
You would have two angels in a 40 gallon and nothing else?

 

[mudraker]

I say just leave the water in there longer let it build up, every time you do a water change it will stress them out because that water isn't exactly the same every time and they have to get use to that.

Sorry, but this is not correct. Large water changes everyday are mandatory if you cycle your tank with fish. Change 50% or more daily to keep amonia and nitrite levels down as much as possible. The toxins will kill your fish much faster than the stress of pws.

 

[mudraker]

Fort posted a little faster and is also correct on the distilled water issues.

 

[Engel]

You need to be changing 50%+ per day until the cycle is complete. Distilled water is a bad idea. Eventually you are going to hit the 0 buffer point and the pH will fall through the floor in a matter of hours at that point. That kind of pH swing will kill your livestock faster than high ammonia levels... Which are deadly in their own right.

What is the 0 buffer point? Have I already made another problem by adding the gallon of distilled?

 

[Tim Wheatley]

TIm,
I'm pretty clear already on the problems you listed.... which is why I'm here asking for advice on mitigating the damage.
I'm definately considering bringing back the tetras, and two cories. The cories don't school like I thought. The tetras are great, but one of them keeps breaking away from the school to agitate the angels. I can identify him, but when I try to catch him to bring him back they FLY together, and I lose him again. Rather just not have them.
Now, just to clarify, you are saying that four angels in a 40 gallon is overcrowded?
You would have two angels in a 40 gallon and nothing else?

Yeah I would. This just comes from personal experience obviously, but Angels aren't nice. They stake their claim to an area in the tank and then turn themselves on their side and launch themselves at anything which enters their 'airspace'. I have a breeding pair so of course the aggression is higher, but it should be said they'll happily pick on any other fish which they feel like. They are gorgeous fish though. Good luck.

 

[fort384]

Regular tap water has ions and particles in it. All of these are removed in distilled water. Buffering capacity refers to your waters ability to maintain and resist changes in pH. The more ions in the water, The higher the buffering capacity, the higher the pH. This is also referred to as alkalinity. By adding distilled water you are removing these important buffers. Eventually as you approach 0 buffers the pH will rapidly drop. It is a sudden change.... We call it a pH crash.

 

[kholton]

Sorry... I'm not trying to say you're wrong Tim, I just have a different opinion here... Personally, I think the idea of "overloading" a tank isn't really a horrible thing, as long as you're willing to deal with the added maintenance... The less fish you have, the less often you have to do water changes. That being said, it is true that adding too many at once can overload the bacteria in your filter, but even with that, if you do frequent water changes, and monitor your parameters it should be fine. (not that I'm advising to do that however, just saying)

Personally... I have a 30g tank which only really has 20g of water in it due to the rocks, and I have 8 Malawi Cichlids in it... but that's only because the LFS lacked several species that I wanted... And I'm looking to buy 2-4 more in the next few days. With that in mind, I do weekly water changes, and never see any problems with Nitrates.

Just my opinion though...

~Kaden

 

[Engel]

Tim,
OhMYGosh... "launch themselves"? LOL. OK so I've got the four already, and I really wouldn't be able to choose which to keep, and which to bring back! I wouldn't be terribly disappointed over bringing back the cories as well, but aren't they a good, and non-invasive addition? Maybe I should just get a larger tank....

 

[Tim Wheatley]

You're probably an experienced fishkeeper, I assume. You didn't add those fish all at once, I assume. You took into account the aggression of the species, I assume.

No, overloading BIOLOGICALLY isn't a bad thing if you can deal with it, but lots of people cannot, and a lot of fish cannot deal with overloading of TERRITORY. That's a whole different ballgame.

 

[Engel]

Regular tap water has ions and particles in it. All of these are removed in distilled water. Buffering capacity refers to your waters ability to maintain and resist changes in pH. The more ions in the water, The higher the buffering capacity, the higher the pH. This is also referred to as alkalinity. By adding distilled water you are removing these important buffers. Eventually as you approach 0 buffers the pH will rapidly drop. It is a sudden change.... We call it a pH crash.

Ooohh. That makes sense... so just leave the Ph where it is. I;ve read that many angels now are bred in high Ph water, so maybe they'll do fine? I'm not eager to breed them at all.

 

[Tim Wheatley]

Cories should largely be left alone, they get picked at occasionally but nothing seems to bother them.

 

[FishCrazyBenBOMB]

Eh my tanks are fine so i'll stick to my method haha.

 

[Engel]

So the majority consensus is daily water changes until I get my test kit will be better for the fish than not, right?

 

[fort384]

Absolutely. I understand ben's point--but there is 1 main difference. His tanks have an established biological filter. Your tank does not and will not until the cycle is complete.

 

[Coleallensmom]

Good job on ordering the API test kit.

It won't hurt to do daily PWCs. As previously mentioned- you've got a high bioload for a cycling 40 gallon tank, so until you know exactly where your water parameters stand, I'd recommend doing 50% changes.

A few of the others gave you some good advice. Be careful with using the distilled water. It should never be the only water used in the fish tank. It isn't healthy for fish because it has none of the minerals in it that fish need. It can have a very low oxygen content and it can be prone to PH swings since it lacks those minerals which provide a PH buffer. The most important thing to do regarding pH is often to just leave it alone. Fluctuations on PH are stressful for the fish...Providing a stable pH is more important that the actual pH value. If you want to try to lower your Ph, I would stay away from chemicals and distilled water and try more natural alternatives like Peat or bogwood/driftwood.