I'm Afraid...
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JamesR
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looks like it to me. It's appears as small white "salt" spots on the fish. at least you have him in QT.
quarryshark
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Yes, it looks like it. What is your game plan?
Don't worry, ich does not kill overnight, but treatment is needed.
Don't worry, ich does not kill overnight, but treatment is needed.
Spots appeared this morning. I've got pH and Refractometers on order though I'm not sure when they'll get here. I'd like to go hypo. I'm already dosing with garlic in their food (figure it can't hurt).
When I'm treating using hypo what's the best way to keep pH in the right range?
I have Seachem Reef Buffer (raises pH to 8.3), Reef Builder (Raises Carbonates), and b-Ionic here already, but will purchase whatever you think I need to in order to keep things stable.
Current water parameters:
pH: 8.2 (FasTest)
Ammonia: 0 (FasTest)
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
Temperature: 78
SG: 1.022 (hydrometer)
When I'm treating using hypo what's the best way to keep pH in the right range?
I have Seachem Reef Buffer (raises pH to 8.3), Reef Builder (Raises Carbonates), and b-Ionic here already, but will purchase whatever you think I need to in order to keep things stable.
Current water parameters:
pH: 8.2 (FasTest)
Ammonia: 0 (FasTest)
Nitrite:
Nitrate:
Temperature: 78
SG: 1.022 (hydrometer)
Can I start taking the salinity down with the hydrometer or won't that help any? How long do I have before my fish is in danger? Should I raise or lower my temperature? I do have a couple of "disposable" rocks in my tank that are there to help with the cycle.
quarryshark
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Are the fish is in qt? If so, no worries you can beat it.
If they are in qt, you can reduce the SG pretty quickly. I would change out 1/5the of the water volume in the qt every 12 hours with fresh RO water. Fish can take a fast drop in SG, but cannot take a fast raise in SG
The hydrometer will be OK to start, but to do an accurate treatment, a good refractometer is needed.
The PH will do some funky stuff, especially while you are adjusting the SG down. The buffers you mentioned above will do a fine job in keeping the PH stable during the transition. Your best bet is to buffer the change water before you use it. Also test daily for ammonia, it will spike until your biological catches up with the treatment.
Please do not attempt this treatment within the main. A proper qt setup the most important component of the treatment.
If they are in qt, you can reduce the SG pretty quickly. I would change out 1/5the of the water volume in the qt every 12 hours with fresh RO water. Fish can take a fast drop in SG, but cannot take a fast raise in SG
The hydrometer will be OK to start, but to do an accurate treatment, a good refractometer is needed.
The PH will do some funky stuff, especially while you are adjusting the SG down. The buffers you mentioned above will do a fine job in keeping the PH stable during the transition. Your best bet is to buffer the change water before you use it. Also test daily for ammonia, it will spike until your biological catches up with the treatment.
Please do not attempt this treatment within the main. A proper qt setup the most important component of the treatment.
He's still in QT (new fish) so we're good to go there. Glad to hear that it's beatable. I just knew this fish was going to have ich. I thought I saw it on a tankmate when I picked him out (but was, of course, reassured that wasn't what I was seeing). He really seems stressed in qt, so I'm sure that isn't helping any (in spite of good water parameters). He looks a bit faded too. I guess the good news is that if he survives this he'll likely survive almost anything!
Thanks. I'm sure you haven't seen the last of me, lol.
Thanks. I'm sure you haven't seen the last of me, lol.
Our SG had gotten up to 1.026 in the (20g) QT, I'm guessing because of the evaporation? I don't have that sort of instability in my main so I just wasn't expecting such dramatic swings in the SG. Just dropping it back to 1.022 has provided amazing relief to the tang. He was looking really stressed yesterday (faded in addition to the spots) but this morning had beautiful vibrant color and ate like a champ. I would swear he has fewer spots on him this morning as well. We'll drop the SG again when we get home.
No problem keeping my rock in the tank, right? It is "disposable" as in I am not using it in the main and can just boil it after this process is over. The rock has been there since before these fish so it is carrying a good part of cycle.
No problem keeping my rock in the tank, right? It is "disposable" as in I am not using it in the main and can just boil it after this process is over. The rock has been there since before these fish so it is carrying a good part of cycle.
quarryshark
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You could, but any die off from the lowered SG can raise the ammonia level if its LR. Some PVC elbows would be better, you call.
Of course if you treat with meds, it would the definately need to be removed.
Of course if you treat with meds, it would the definately need to be removed.
There are 3 small pieces of rock and a few elbows as well. I'll leave the rock in there for now (the gramma is calling it home right now and seems happy that way) and keep a close watch on the ammo as the SG drops. Hopefully this won't get to meds! 
But if it does I'll know that I need to remove it.
I have a few refugees in my QT that have accumulated waiting for a fuge. Two snails, two bristle worms and one red crab. I don't have another running environment to put them in. I don't know what to do with them. How long could they float in bags in the QT? I'm not sure what else to do so that they'd survive and I'm going to feel like holy crud if I have to put them down!
But if it does I'll know that I need to remove it.I have a few refugees in my QT that have accumulated waiting for a fuge. Two snails, two bristle worms and one red crab. I don't have another running environment to put them in. I don't know what to do with them. How long could they float in bags in the QT? I'm not sure what else to do so that they'd survive and I'm going to feel like holy crud if I have to put them down!
quarryshark
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Can you move them to a tupperware container or a bucket along with the rock? All you would need is a PH and a small heater.
Yeah, I'll have everything for the fuge some time later this week when the power heads show up. I have 2 heaters in the mixing saltwater so I can use one of those. So even if I can't get the fuge hooked into my main I can run it stand alone for the critters.
Thanks for the idea.
Thanks for the idea.
quarryshark
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Ah, in that case I would not expect much. Sorry, thought it was LR.
Thanks! You're better off assuming the worst so that you have the best shot at information dissemination so I completely understand! I was hoping this would be the case because I really think it is helping the QT environment. My ammo's been a steady zero for the entire time the two fish have been in there. I've only done one water change on it so far (well two considering last night's water addition) so I really think it has the handle on my bioload.
And speaking of filtration... I'm running one of those little bubble-sponge-type filter things on this tank. The tank is stable so I guess that's good. There isn't a whole lot of flow in the tank though (since it is just what it bubbles up). Should there be more flow in there (and if so, how much more)? Is this adequate "filtration" for the tank? (rock is probably 2# in the 15g with maybe 2.5-3" of fish).
The two fish are a tiny gramma (no outward signs of ich) and the (ich riddled) purple tang (who is also very small, still bearing more of a triangle shape than a teardrop).
And speaking of filtration... I'm running one of those little bubble-sponge-type filter things on this tank. The tank is stable so I guess that's good. There isn't a whole lot of flow in the tank though (since it is just what it bubbles up). Should there be more flow in there (and if so, how much more)? Is this adequate "filtration" for the tank? (rock is probably 2# in the 15g with maybe 2.5-3" of fish).
The two fish are a tiny gramma (no outward signs of ich) and the (ich riddled) purple tang (who is also very small, still bearing more of a triangle shape than a teardrop).
quarryshark
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I think your filter will be fin.
Hypo will be very gentle on these fish. Hurry and get the refractometer in.
Hypo will be very gentle on these fish. Hurry and get the refractometer in.
The prounounced white spots that he had have faded away and now he has sort of a ... dusty look to him. Best seen on an angle. With him flat to me he looks perfectly normal. Nothing that really stands off of the fish like in the photo. Are we headed in the right direction?
The salinity has been coming down a little more slowly than I'd like because I'm only getting to water changes once a day. We're down to 1.019 now. pH is holding steady around 8.2. Ammo still in check. Did a water change today while I was moving water out and into the tank. Kept a bucket of it for the inverts that I pulled out today. Refractometer should be in tomorrow (maybe Saturday) just in time to get down to the 1.09 at the rate I'm going.
Do I need to step up the pace or is the fish going to be ok through this?
The salinity has been coming down a little more slowly than I'd like because I'm only getting to water changes once a day. We're down to 1.019 now. pH is holding steady around 8.2. Ammo still in check. Did a water change today while I was moving water out and into the tank. Kept a bucket of it for the inverts that I pulled out today. Refractometer should be in tomorrow (maybe Saturday) just in time to get down to the 1.09 at the rate I'm going.
Do I need to step up the pace or is the fish going to be ok through this?
quarryshark
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Now your making me nervous. Are there any other symptoms? Listlessness, heavy gilling? Are they eating?
Can you get another pic?
Afterthought, does your LFS carry Cupramine? You may want to switch gears and treat with that instead. What you describe above sound a little like velvet and Cupramine would cover all the bases.
It may not be, but the "dusty" appearence has me a little concerned.
quarryshark
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Her is our article.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=46
Just being cautious, hypo would not be effective with velvet . I confered with Steve and he stated that it may just be a secondary infection from the irratation. If that is the case, good water quality and good foods fortified with [acronym="Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acid"]HUFA[/acronym] would most likely clear that up.
The spots will come and go, its all part of the life cycle.
BTW, would you be willing to donate that picture for a future article? You would recieve credit for it.
Kurt
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=46
Just being cautious, hypo would not be effective with velvet . I confered with Steve and he stated that it may just be a secondary infection from the irratation. If that is the case, good water quality and good foods fortified with [acronym="Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acid"]HUFA[/acronym] would most likely clear that up.
The spots will come and go, its all part of the life cycle.
BTW, would you be willing to donate that picture for a future article? You would recieve credit for it.
Kurt
