I'm an idiot...(DIY c02)

[exactionfigure]

I decided that DIY c02 was too hard for me to do with out researching it and went ahead with buying the hagen c02 kit, apparently DYI c02 involves a soda bottle, airline tubing and a drill

I already bought the hagen c02 kit so I was wondering if it would be allright to use the diffuser ladder thing in that? or is there a better way to defuse it?

I will have a 65 watt CF on my 20 gallon High so that puts me at a little over 3 WPG, I didn't realize it when I ordered it but I guess that's considered High lighting I made the assumption that high lights would cost alot of money and didn't think that my $60.00 coralife was going to be any thing more then moderate

I will have these plants:

Java Moss Vesicularia dubyana-3
MicroSword Lilaeopsis brasiliensis-1
Marimo Ball Cladophora aegagropila-1

Java Fern Microsorum pteropus - 1 Lg 2 Sm
Amazon Sword Echinodorus amazonicus -1
Anubias Barteri -1
Anubias Coffeefolia-1
Anubias Nana-1

Rotundifolia Rotala, Indica-2
Foxtail Ceratophyllum demersum-4
Green Cabomba Cabomba caroliniana-3
Water Wisteria Hygrophila difformi-1


I'm going to run a powerhead at night to outgas the c02 as well.

What size bottle should I use?
Do you think a 2 litter bottle will be a good amount of c02 with out harming my fish?
How often do I change the c02 mixture?
What is the purpose of bubble counters?

also I have read tons and tons of horror stories about diy c02 exploding I was thinking I can put the bottle in a larger bucket with a hole in the top so if it did happen then the mess would be contained but what can I do to prevent it from happening?

Thanks
-Matt

 

[mr funktastic]

What size bottle should I use?
Do you think a 2 litter bottle will be a good amount of c02 with out harming my fish?
How often do I change the c02 mixture?
What is the purpose of bubble counters?

also I have read tons and tons of horror stories about diy c02 exploding I was thinking I can put the bottle in a larger bucket with a hole in the top so if it did happen then the mess would be contained but what can I do to prevent it from happening?

i use 2 2 litre bottles with very good results and so far no harm to my fish.
u change the bottle depending on what mix u use. i use 2 cups of sugar and 1/2 tbs of yeast so i change my mix every 2 weeks but that is becasue i use alot of yeast. it also depends on what kind of yeast u use. bakers yeast will burn out faster compared to champagen(sp?) yeast.
a bubble counter just tells u how fast ua re injecting co2. this is more for pressurized set ups so u can figure out how many bubbles per second u are injecting. the bottle will only explode if the co2 cant come out. as long as u make sure the system is working it wont blow. i have never had it happen or even worry about it. u can use the hagen ladder as a diffuser but it isnt really super effective. i use it in my tank but i put mine under my filter intake so all the escaping bubbles get sucked into the filter and diffused the rest of the way. if u are planning on running a powerhead there are many DIY diffuser that can be made out of them. very very efficient ones actually. i hope that answers alot of your questions

 

[exactionfigure]

I think I confused bubble counter with bubble ladder but now I understand.

wow, two 2 liter bottles for a 20 gallon? that seems like a bit much, am I wrong?

I just made one out of a 2 liter bottle and a put the whole thing in a rubbermaid container with a decent sized whole drilled in the cover and put it under the tank so if it were to explode it would be contained in there (besides maybe a little bit that may leak out of the hole)

I have read about people putting it into their filter intake, does that apply when using a HOB filter (penguin 200 w/o bio-wheel)

I could hook it up to the attachment on the powerhead that normally shoots air into the water but then i'm not sure how I would disperse the c02 at night.

maybe a combo of the Hagen under the filter and the DIY 2 liter with the powerhead?
but still I would like to disperse the c02 at night.

-Matt

 

[mr funktastic]

i ave neevr dispersed the co2 at night and have never had problems. and yes 2 2litre bottles is a little much but i like really high levels. my plants pearl enought o compensate for any excess in co2. yes u can pipe it directly into your filter intake but it makes a fairly loud gurgle sound and may casue an air lock in your filter. this isnt very common but is a possibility. thats why i use the ladder so the bubble gets nice and small by the time the filter sucks it up so there is very little noise. i highly suggest u take out the biowheel if u want your co levels to be anything above maybe 10. and also the activted carbon in the filter cartridges take away nutrients for the plants and do nothing else. carbon wears out after a week and it is only used to remove medicine from the tank basically. another cheap diffuser is to use aa fine mist air stone near the output of your filter soo all the tiny bubbles get blown all around the tank.

 

[Peyton]

You can just run a air pump on a timer to come on at night if you like. I have a 20 gal also with 2-2 liters going.

On a side note your going to be pruning the wisteria like mad in a 20 gal .

 

[CaptnIgnit]

The only reason to disperse CO2 at night is if you have a pressurized system. It will save you wasting your CO2 when not needed. However, in a yeast system you can't really save any CO2 as it is generated by the yeast. Hence, there is no point in dispersing it at night.

I too am not worried about my CO2 system exploding, it hadn't even heard of it until you mentioned it. I would be much more concerned that the CO2 wasn't getting into my tank because of a blockage than the bottle exploding.

Anywho, here is a reactor I made, it is pretty straight forward. I also made a second reactor I'll post pics of once I get a better camera. Basically, just followed the example at http://www.aquaticscape.com/articles/co2reactor.htm but improved upon it where I needed too. They are both inline reactors so they require a pump to push water out to them. There are other options for internal reactors but I know I absorb all the CO2 my system puts out.

 

[evercl92]

I bought one of these and it produces bubbles that are 1/16th of an inch or so. I let it diffuse up the tank for about a foot, then it gets caught by my powerhead, and blown across the tank for further diffusion. The bubbles are almost completely gone by the time they are across the tank, and few actually make it to the surface. I too run 2 2L bottles. I have them T-pieced into one tube, feeding to the diffuser. I'm pumping it to a 125gal though... I would imagine the tank could handle more, maybe 2 more bottles on the other side...

 

[mr funktastic]

both those reastors can only be used on a system with a cannister filter and i dont think exactionfigure has a cannister but a very good design. u can buy a small bell diffuser aswell but i think the ladder anf filter should be more than enough diffusion for now.

 

[Purrbox]

both those reastors can only be used on a system with a cannister filter and i dont think exactionfigure has a cannister but a very good design.

Actually the Inline CO2 Reactors don't require a canister filter. They can also be run using a small water pump.

 

[Alshain]

I'm building an inline filter from those plans right now. I too am making modficiations. I couldnt find the 1/2" threaded barbs so I got 3/4" instead. I also want mine to "hang" on the tank to relieve stress so I'm gonna put an eye on it with a tie wrap. Also I made mine a foot long and I'm gonna put 15 bioballs in it for extra break up and in addition to the PVC glue, I will coat the fittings in silicon glue. I hope it works. I am a little concerned about the PVC glue leaching toxic chemicals into the water, but others have done it so I guess I should be ok.

I have more mats than I need so after I've put together one for me and my brother in law. I might make some and sell em cheap.

 

[CaptnIgnit]

I didn't use any glue, thats part of my modifications. instead I used one of these as the coupling. Also mine hangs off the back of the tank via the reverse U shape I have two pipes make.

I'll take a picture with my crappy camera phone to show it to you to give you an idea of how it works incase you want to incorporate any of it into your design.

Also, I run both of mine off a water pump that is submerged in my tanks.

Edit: almost forgot to say! teflon tape is your friend! don't bother coating all the fittings with silicone, just use the tape to make the seal. Much easier if you need to unscrew them at a later point.

 

[exactionfigure]

Very interesting stuff guys but I'm hoping to keep it as low tech as possible-(and low cost I'm i've allready spent about $300 just in the past two days 8O ) I think I’ll go with 2-2 liters into the ladder then through the power head if I can get that work

If that doesn't work then I’ll check out the other method

I thought you had to disperse c02 at night because the plants aren't using it and it's just building up but I will try not dispersing it at first and see how my fish do.

CaptnIgnit-
I wasn’t talking about the c02 itself exploding I was talking about the bottle from all the pressure and it blowing yeast and junk all over my living room, but I think I’ll be fine since I'm housing the bottle(s) inside a Rubbermaid container.

btw Peyton I'm hoping the wisteria really takes off, I want kind of an over grown looking tank I’m going to plant the Wisteria,Cabomba and Foxtail in the back behind my big piece of drift wood and I’m hoping they really fill up the back.

Oh and three more quick questions
how would I run both 2 liter bottles into one ladder, would I have to get two ladders and two power heads?

Exactly what amounts to I mix of what stuff in the 2 liter bottles, what about baking soda I have read that people add that. How often do I change it?

And I probley wont need to know this for a while but when you trim your plants how do you do it with out the leaves going all over the place and what do you use?

I think that may be more then three questions but I have to learn some how

-Matt

 

[CaptnIgnit]

1. you need a T airline splitter, Petco carries them and I'm sure PetSmart does too.

2. This is up for debate, everyone has a formula they love. A simple forumla is 2 cups of sugar, 1/4 tsp yeast in 2 liters of water. I personally use one I got here: http://www.aquatic-gardeners.org/Nyberg_yeast.ppt (I do double the sugar though)

3. Most of my plants float so I let them float up while I am trimming, then get the net out and scoop up what's left.

Also, I was talking about the bottle exploding. If a line were to get pinched and caused a backup (thereby blocking airflow) I would likely catch it before the bottle exploded. Either that or the seal where my silicone is would break before the bottle would explode.

 

[exactionfigure]

Cool, thanks for the quick reply.
With a T airline splitter that wouldn't run c02 into the other bottle?
what if one runs out before the other?

 

[CaptnIgnit]

the pressure will equalize between the 2 bottles and your reactor. As long as one is generating CO2 it will be fine. There is only one way for the CO2 to escape so if only one is generating it just has to fill up more space before it creates enough pressure to escape.

I found a site that shows a really good way of doing this, but I can't seem to find it now. Let me make a quick drawing in ms paint and post it here:

the red thing is the T, and I have a small bottle that allows any liquid that might come out of the CO2 mixture to gather in that as opposed to going into my tank.

EDIT: Just found the site!

http://www.fishforever.co.uk/hookup.html

 

[Purrbox]

It's also helpful to put a check valve between each bottle and the airline T, that way your system doesn't lose pressure when you're changing out the mix in one of the bottles.

 

[fish_4_all]

Ok, I am confused a little. Pressurized, turn it off at night to prevent waste, DIY leave it on because you can't save it, right?

One another note, check valves, don't skimp on them. If I could find good ones here, I would buy them but I only have cheapo ones that fail after about 3 months or so.

I also use two 2 liter bottles on my 10 gallon tank and get abut 45ppm CO2.

 

[CaptnIgnit]

Basically yes.

The reason they say to run a bubbler at night is to provide oxygen to the fish, not lower CO2. Since the plants stop photosynthesizing at night they no longer produce oxygen (and don't use CO2). That means there is a limited amount of CO2 and Oxygen in the water. with no surface aggrigation the air outside doesn't balance with the water in the tank. So you have the potential to have low levesl of oxygen in the water come morning. Leaving the CO2 going does not harm the fish (assuming it is at a resonable level, 15-50 ppm for most cases).

Personally I don't find that the oxygen levels are ever in danger of getting low overnight. Granted CO2 may build up but I believe you need to get in the range of 100ppm before it becomes lethal to fish. And if it builds up to 40ppm overnight I figure I have a nice big chunk of CO2 for my plants come morning.=0)

 

[Alshain]

I agree, the plants should produce an abundance of oxygen for the fish to use all night while the lights are out.

 

[7Enigma]

It's also helpful to put a check valve between each bottle and the airline T, that way your system doesn't lose pressure when you're changing out the mix in one of the bottles.

More importantly (especially in your setup), you want a check valve so that you don't start a syphon and drain your tank (or worse have some tank water backup into the bottle, and then have yeast water go back into the tank). I keep my CO2 bottle ABOVE my tank for this very reason, but would not risk running a CO2 bottle below tank level without a check valve.