I'm stumped... :(

[wrmiller]

If you've got to treat ich again...don't add more fish with the Barbs (if that's what you were planning). For one you don't want to expose other fish to illness...and Otos are sensitive to salt and do not tolerate it well because they are scaleless fish. Personally, even though ich is easy enough to treat (scaleless fish and inverts complicate things)...but if I buy sick fish...they're being taken back. The store should also be notified because chances are the other fish will also have an outbreak and need treatment.

I guess that is one of my questions also. I always inspect the fishes in the container before they bag them to make sure I don't see any Ich or other signs of trouble. So, are they infected already and just not showing signs until I get them home or is it that they already have Ich that isn't showing and the stress brings it out on them?

I will definitely take your advice and will NOT be getting any new fish tomorrow. It's mostly an aquarium and stand and filter(s) wish list run anyway.

 

[eco23]

I guess that is one of my questions also. I always inspect the fishes in the container before they bag them to make sure I don't see any Ich or other signs of trouble. So, are they infected already and just not showing signs until I get them home or is it that they already have Ich that isn't showing and the stress brings it out on them?

I will definitely take your advice and will NOT be getting any new fish tomorrow. It's mostly an aquarium and stand and filter(s) wish list run anyway.

Most likely they're carriers...but it doesn't present until their immune system is weakened by stress (from being shipped, tanked at the pet store, pulled out, put in another bag, driven to your house, etc...). I really don't know about ich (thankfully), so I'm not gonna be much help when it comes to that .

 

[jetajockey]

they can have it in their gills and you won't even visibly see it, that's one reason why QTing new fish is important.

Ich isn't something that is ever-present in the tank.

 

[wrmiller]

they can have it in their gills and you won't even visibly see it, that's one reason why QTing new fish is important.

Ich isn't something that is ever-present in the tank.

Really? Are you sure? From what i have read, I thought Ich parasites could exist in the gravel and other places in the tank. That's what I read. Even that they are swimmers/floaters at times until they find a host fish.

 

[Sparky74]

Really? Are you sure? From what i have read, I thought Ich parasites could exist in the gravel and other places in the tank. That's what I read. Even that they are swimmers/floaters at times until they find a host fish.

The ich parasite needs a fish host to live. The "swarmers/swimmers/floaters" fall off into the substrate to find another host(fish). If they don't(within x amount time), they die and the life cycle ends. I've seen all different numbers on the max life span, up to 20 days..Heat speeds up the life cycle.

I've never seen ich just show up in a established tank unless a fish was added.

 

[jetajockey]

Ich has multiple stages in it's life cycle. So yes, it goes through different phases.

They are an obligate parasite though, so if they cannot find a host in their free swimming stage, they will die, and there isn't any data that I know of that suggests that the trophont stage (the 'eggs' so to speak) have the ability to lay dormant, so once it's gone, it's gone.

Here's a good simple writeup on the subject.
http://www.novalek.com/archive/kpd57.htm

 

[wrmiller]

The ich parasite needs a fish host to live. The "swarmers/swimmers/floaters" fall off into the substrate to find another host(fish). If they don't(within x amount time), they die and the life cycle ends. I've seen all different numbers on the max life span, up to 20 days..Heat speeds up the life cycle.

I've never seen ich just show up in a established tank unless a fish was added.

Ich has multiple stages in it's life cycle. So yes, it goes through different phases.

They are an obligate parasite though, so if they cannot find a host in their free swimming stage, they will die, and there isn't any data that I know of that suggests that the trophont stage (the 'eggs' so to speak) have the ability to lay dormant, so once it's gone, it's gone.

Here's a good simple writeup on the subject.
http://www.novalek.com/archive/kpd57.htm

Thanks for the replies folks. Very healthy discussion indeed. This does answer some of my questions I had actually. So, from what I am understanding, since my main tank went through the Ich treatment (heat and salt) a few weeks ago and all of my fish now appear to be healthy and 100% Ich free, they should be good. I did have the two new fish in there with them a few days ago but as soon as I saw the fist spot show up on the new fish they were immediately removed and put in the QT tank. They are now going through their Ich treatment of heat and salt. They have been in there two days now and are showing no signs of Ich which I'm happy about. I will leave them in there for the recommended 2 weeks and then will move them back to the main tank. See, lessons learned. Now I officially have a QT tank so I will never ever put a fish directly in my main tank ever again. I'm planning to QT all of my fish for at least 2 weeks going forward.

Do either of you know if it's true that once a fish has had Ich and been cured they are less susceptible to ever get it again? Like an immunity to it or something? I read that somewhere. What do you all think?

Thanks again and TGIF!!!

 

[jetajockey]

I've heard about that also, but I've never had the same fish get subjected to Ich twice in a row so I am not sure. One thing I have noticed is that with one instance I had just one species of fish in the tank showing the ich, the entire school of tetras were covered, but the other fish in the tank never showed anything. Was kinda weird, but obviously treated the entire tank anyhow. Maintaining a low level of salt in the tank for a few weeks after the Ich is gone isn't too hard and doesn't really stress the fish in any way that I've seen.

 

[wrmiller]

I've heard about that also, but I've never had the same fish get subjected to Ich twice in a row so I am not sure. One thing I have noticed is that with one instance I had just one species of fish in the tank showing the ich, the entire school of tetras were covered, but the other fish in the tank never showed anything. Was kinda weird, but obviously treated the entire tank anyhow. Maintaining a low level of salt in the tank for a few weeks after the Ich is gone isn't too hard and doesn't really stress the fish in any way that I've seen.

That's funny you say that about the one species getting it and not the others because that is the same thing that happened to me. Only my clown barbs got it and nothing else seemed to be effected. I also treated the entire tank which may have helped also it from spreading to the others. I think the clown barbs were the carriers anyway. It was worth it though because the clown barbs are my favorite.

 

[wrmiller]

So, my QT tank I bought and set up on Tuesday, 8/16 has me baffled. I added two tinfoil barbs to it on Tuesday to treat them for Ich. Wednesday I did a 50% water change without even checking the ammonia or nitrite levels. Every day since then I have been checking the ammonia and nitrite and they are consistently at zero. I have been expecting for ammonia at least to be showing up by now as the fish have been in there and i have been feeding them for almost 5 days now. Wouldn't the two fish an a 10 gallon aquarium produce some level of ammonia by now? The aquarium, filter and gravel were all new. I bought the 10 gallon TopFin kit that came with canopy and a Aqueon filter rated for a 20 gallon. I like the filter a lot. It is perfectly quiet and has these grids that are supposed to help with the BB and acts as a sort of wet/dry function. The filter seems to be very good quality.

Anyway, why am I not seeing any ammonia show up? I don't think it would be possible for a brand new equipment aquarium to cycle so quickly. I unfortunately really don't know if new nitrates are being produced at a small level because I have nitrate in my well water to start with.

Any thoughts are welcome. I have really enjoyed then learnings I have gotten from all of the folks I have had interactions with on this site.

 

[wrmiller]

Does anyone know what the big black spots are between the stripes on my tiger barbs? As they are maturing they seem to be getting more pronounced. I'm hoping it means they are really happy. They seem to be very healthy and three of the four are growing really fast. The fourth is much smaller even though they were all the same size when I got them. I'm thinking that maybe the three larger ones are females and the smaller is a male? I have heard that the females tent to be more plump and the males less so.

 

[wrmiller]

So, my QT tank I bought and set up on Tuesday, 8/16 has me baffled. I added two tinfoil barbs to it on Tuesday to treat them for Ich. Wednesday I did a 50% water change without even checking the ammonia or nitrite levels. Every day since then I have been checking the ammonia and nitrite and they are consistently at zero. I have been expecting for ammonia at least to be showing up by now as the fish have been in there and i have been feeding them for almost 5 days now. Wouldn't the two fish an a 10 gallon aquarium produce some level of ammonia by now? The aquarium, filter and gravel were all new. I bought the 10 gallon TopFin kit that came with canopy and a Aqueon filter rated for a 20 gallon. I like the filter a lot. It is perfectly quiet and has these grids that are supposed to help with the BB and acts as a sort of wet/dry function. The filter seems to be very good quality.

Anyway, why am I not seeing any ammonia show up? I don't think it would be possible for a brand new equipment aquarium to cycle so quickly. I unfortunately really don't know if new nitrates are being produced at a small level because I have nitrate in my well water to start with.

Any thoughts are welcome. I have really enjoyed then learnings I have gotten from all of the folks I have had interactions with on this site.

No one else replied so I will reply to myself. LOL!!!

Yesterday, levels in QT were Ammonia 0 and Nitrite 0. No water change done. Today I checked and Ammonia still 0 but Nitrite was at 1.0 ppm. Did immediate back to back 50% water changes to get the nitrite level down. I'm going to check again tonight and do another PWC if necessary. I though it strange how I never saw the Ammonia spike at all and it's still at 0. I guess that's how the cookie crumbles though. I'll continue to monitor it.

What would be a couple of hardy fish to keep in my QT tank to keep it cycled?

 

[eco23]

No one else replied so I will reply to myself. LOL!!!

Yesterday, levels in QT were Ammonia 0 and Nitrite 0. No water change done. Today I checked and Ammonia still 0 but Nitrite was at 1.0 ppm. Did immediate back to back 50% water changes to get the nitrite level down. I'm going to check again tonight and do another PWC if necessary. I though it strange how I never saw the Ammonia spike at all and it's still at 0. I guess that's how the cookie crumbles though. I'll continue to monitor it.

What would be a couple of hardy fish to keep in my QT tank to keep it cycled?

Sorry dude, really not ignoring you...just don't have concrete answers to give. Unless you seeded the QT with established media...the ammonia and no2 spikes will come (weird the no2 spiked first), it just takes time to build up to measurable levels.

You don't need to keep the QT cycled with fish. At that point it stops being a quarantine and becomes another display tank. I'd personally run the filter from the QT on the main tank, and when you need to set up the QT again, just pull the filter off and you've got an instantly cycled tank.

What ever happened with the Health Dept btw?

 

[wrmiller]

Sorry dude, really not ignoring you...just don't have concrete answers to give. Unless you seeded the QT with established media...the ammonia and no2 spikes will come (weird the no2 spiked first), it just takes time to build up to measurable levels.

You don't need to keep the QT cycled with fish. At that point it stops being a quarantine and becomes another display tank. I'd personally run the filter from the QT on the main tank, and when you need to set up the QT again, just pull the filter off and you've got an instantly cycled tank.

What ever happened with the Health Dept btw?

Thanks for your reply, eco! I know everyone is busy and I ask some pretty odd questions. I really value the advice you and others that have replied to this thread have provided so I kind of figure that I'm going to use this thread for just about all of my questions.

I thought about running the filter on my main tank but the reason I was going against that is because I didn't want the additional noise in my office. I guess I could throw it on there though and if it is too noisy I'll figure something else out. So, if I just leave the filter on the main tank when I don't need the QT tank, when I add it back to the QT tank it will immediately take care of things even though the substrate and things will not yet have the BB? That definitely is appealing. I guess the extra filtration on my main tank wont hurt either.

Regarding the Health Department. They are just like any other government agency I guess and haven't gotten back to us yet. They came Wednesday before last and said it would be a week maximum and then we would hear from them. Well, still nothing and I have been too busy to call them. I am going to have my wife call them and follow up tomorrow. When the girl came out to take the samples away she thought there was no way that our water had the amount of nitrates that my kit was showing. She said that she had not seen anyone in the area with such high levels. Well, unless my test API kit is faulty I'm expecting them to come back with the same results. If my wife is able to call tomorrow I will definitely post the results.

We had a yard sale last weekend and made enough money to get the under sink RO system so that is good news. I still haven't unpacked and hooked the one I got off of eBay for the fish tank yet. I'm still up in the air about it. I have been just using the tap water for the aquarium PWCs along with Prime. It still really bugs me that all of those nitrates are in the water when I do my water changes. I think I may start hauling water from my folks house. They have public water but that shouldn't matter since I'm using Prime anyway. Right?

I have decided to go with a 90 gallon after so much debate. I was going to get the 110 tall but that is too tall and I think maintenance on. 30 inch deep tank wouldn't be too much fun. I like the 48" x 18" footprint a lot and it will fit perfectly where i want to put it so 90 gallons seems like the appropriate size to go with. It is 24" deep so much more manageable in my opinion regarding reach depth.

Here is a question I have regarding filtration. I am definitely going to go with a canister. The Fluval 405 says it is rated for up to 100 gallons. Would I be able to get away with the 405 or would I have to go bigger with like the FX5? The FX5 being so many gallons per hour just seems like a little overkill to me but I could be wrong. I am definitely interested in you thoughts on this as I know you have the 405. Or if anyone else has a 405 running on a 90 gallon aquarium, I would like to hear your first hand performance results.

 

[eco23]

I don't personally run a HOB on my main tank with my canister (though I probably should). When I need to set up a QT, I grab the HOB out of the basement, pull a handful of bio-media out of the canister, stick it in and call it a day.

I think water from your parents house is a great solution if you don't mind lugging it over. The Prime neutralizes any chlorine...city water is what most of us use. If you set up a SW tank it'll be a different story.

I would absolutely, without question go for the fx5. I've got the 405 on my 46 gallon...I wouldn't personally put it on a 90. All these companies overrate their filters, so I would doubt the efficiency of the 405 on that tank. You can find some good deals online for fx5's, and I've never personally heard bad reviews on them.

Keep us posted

 

[wrmiller]

out of the blue today my Bristle Nose Pleco turned up dead. I don't think he has been eating right or something. I have no idea why because levels in the tank look good with the exception of the nitrates being about 40ppm which there is nothing I can do about that right now.

 

[h2oskierc]

...with the exception of the nitrates being about 40ppm which there is nothing I can do about that right now.

Two back to back 50% PWCs would be a good start.

 

[wrmiller]

Two back to back 50% PWCs would be a good start.

Nope. Wont help. My tap water has about 40 ppm of nitrates in it. Unfortunately.

 

[h2oskierc]

Nope. Wont help. My tap water has about 40 ppm of nitrates in it. Unfortunately.

Could you get some distilled water from the grocery store? I wonder if the ph would be close enough.

 

[wrmiller]

Could you get some distilled water from the grocery store? I wonder if the ph would be close enough.

I have an RO unit if I get it set up. I'm going to use that and RO Rite I think it's called to add the minerals back to the water. Just have to get around to doing it. I don't think the nitrates had anything to do with the Bristle Nose passing though. But of course I don't know for sure. I forgone the Biopsy.