Is this for real?

[WendiDell]

There is so much out on the market today, it's difficult to know. Some of the stuff is old and does nothing and some stuff is new. But I just saw this and wondered, if it's not true how can they advertise it. This is a direct quote from Petco's web site.

I've always stayed with the better safe than sorry and seeded my tanks and let the cycle take it's natural course, let time do it's thing. But someone new to the hobby wouldn't have a clue if this were true or not, how could they.
If it's not true, how does Petco and other retailers that sell things like this get away with it. I would think that some kind of disclaimer on a product like this would be required, our should be.
This isn't meant to trash anyone. I'm just curious about a product that claims, Zero waiting, just add fish. They aren't even using the usual bad advice of wait 24 hours, then add fish.

My actual question is, Has anyone ever tried this product? Does it do what it claims to do? Or is it another product to make us think cycling isn't necessary? And then after some expensive Marine fish have been added, we find out "OOPS, my fish are dying I should have cycled".
Then comes the panic returning of fish so they don't all die and everything else that goes along with improper set up/cycle.

I also have no idea if I posted this in the right place or not., so feel free to place it wherever it belongs.

Nature's Ocean Bio-Active live Aragonite Reef Substrate
16 lbs.
Just place in tank, add saltwater, add fish, no waiting required. 100% natural, premium marine substrate, straight from the ocean to you. Contains natural live marine bacteria.
Contains live marine bacteria to quickly stabilize your tank.
Removes nitrogenous waste.
Restores natural organic balance.
Contains more than 10,000,000 hetertrophic bacteria per pound.
This product is natural, not artificial--prevents bio-fouling.
Contains live marine autotrophic bacteria to provide a proper inorganic balance.
Contains live chemolithotrophic bacteria.

Beneficial characteristics of aragonite:

Reduces harmful nitrate.
Maintains proper pH.
Provides enhanced buffering capacity.
Provides essential inorganic elements such as strontium, cobalt, zinc, and molybdenum.
Instant ammonia cycling.
Essential trace elements provide by Bio-Activ Live Aragonite: zinc sulphate, calcium chloride, manganese chloride, cobalt chloride, copper sulphate, sodium molybdate, strontium chloride, nickel chloride, potassium bromide, sodium silicate.

 

[Talvari]

IMO, there is no product on the market that replaces cycling a tank on your own. I lump products like this right up with those bacterial supplements that "instantly" cycle your tank and you can add fish "immediately".

 

[WendiDell]

IMO, there is no product on the market that replaces cycling a tank on your own. I lump products like this right up with those bacterial supplements that "instantly" cycle your tank and you can add fish "immediately".

That has always been my opinion too. I was just wondering if anyone had tired it and if it's all bunk, how do they get away with advertising that it makes a tank "instantly" cycled and safe for your fish?

Even if there aren't any laws to protect the fish, there are consumer laws to protect us against false advertising. Isn't there?

 

[Discusandstingrays]

Ive been told those types of products are only useful if they have live bacteria. Some have actual helpful live bacteria that assist in cycling and others misdirect you and dont do much. But i have found that certain products help but they definately do not instantly cycles a tank.

 

[severum mama]

Moved to FW and Brackish- General Discussion.

 

[adeebm]

Moved to FW and Brackish- General Discussion.

I believe this is an SW topic? It's aragonite substrate.

Anyway, while the sand does probably have some BB, it is not an instant cycle. Your live rock is what is important fir cycling, and uncured rock needs to be cured, sand or no sand. However, if you used established LR, you may well have an instant cycle, though it has nothing to do with the sand, and it's best to wait a while anyway.

--Adeeb

 

[OasisKeeper]

Ah, I think that should be in the Marine section but..

I believe the claim is true! Put this substrate in a 100 gallon, make a fresh batch of salt water from RO/DI, add one Damsel.. he will survive!

 

[Fishguy2727]

It is true, if you put it in a giant aquarium and add one small fish you will not get any detectable ammonia or nitrite.

Those products are bogus. Think of them as nothing more than wet sand.

 

[severum mama]

I believe this is an SW topic? It's aragonite substrate.

Anyway, while the sand does probably have some BB, it is not an instant cycle. Your live rock is what is important fir cycling, and uncured rock needs to be cured, sand or no sand. However, if you used established LR, you may well have an instant cycle, though it has nothing to do with the sand, and it's best to wait a while anyway.

--Adeeb

Lots of people use aragonite for African Rift Lake Cichlids. Since the OP keeps only FW, and has a Malawi tank, I assumed this was a FW topic.

 

[Discusandstingrays]

There are products for sw and fw.

 

[adeebm]

My bad. I assumed he was using it for SW. In that case, it defiantly won't instacycle an FW tank because the species if bacteria are different and the product contains SW bacteria.

--Adeeb

 

[WendiDell]

Thank you for all your responses. Just so you all know I wasn't planning on using it to start a new FW or SW tank, it's purely a hypothetical question on my part.
We can't do much to get many of the FS to care about the lives of the fish they sell and getting any laws made to protect them is an exercise in futility, but there are laws to protect consumers. So if I can confirm one way or the other about this product and it's claims, I plan on trying to help, at least part of the problem, through Consumer Protection Laws.
As an experiment in trying to change things for the better in our hobby.
I decided I was tired of complaining and doing nothing about it. I have no idea if this will change a thing, but it has to start somewhere.

So, OasisKeeper mentioned that if you used it in a 100g tank and then added 1 fish, all would be fine.
Fishguy2727 said if you use it in a giant tank and add one tiny fish, you won't get any detectable ammonia or nitrIte.
But the same would be true with any 100+ gallon tank and one tiny fish, no matter what type of substrate being used, wouldn't it?

So without these extremes, say a tank 39g-75g with either FW or Marine or even Brackish water. And adding the proper amount of of fish (not over, not under) for the tank size. Can this product do what it claims?
Has anyone ever tried this or a similar product, under normal circumstances, with any success? Or is this false advertising as I suspect?
I could do experiments myself but I'm not willing to kill a bunch of innocent fish to prove it. I'm hoping to gather the information from others.

 

[severum mama]

But the same would be true with any 100+ gallon tank and one tiny fish, no matter what type of substrate being used, wouldn't it?

Wendi, you nailed it. That's exactly the point that Fishguy2727 was making, and I completely agree with it. I would not trust any bagged "live" substrate, whether it was made for FW or SW. I have not done experiments with it, but IMO the claim is suspect to begin with... and I have seen firsthand how this stuff is shipped and handled- nothing that WAS alive in there is gonna be by the time it gets to the LFS. LOL

 

[WendiDell]

Wendi, you nailed it. That's exactly the point that Fishguy2727 was making, and I completely agree with it. I would not trust any bagged "live" substrate, whether it was made for FW or SW. I have not done experiments with it, but IMO the claim is suspect to begin with... and I have seen firsthand how this stuff is shipped and handled- nothing that WAS alive in there is gonna be by the time it gets to the LFS. LOL

I figured it was complete bull, but in order to make a complaint about this type of product I need to hear from people that have tried it. I personally wouldn't waste my money on any of the fast cycle products. But I would love to see them off the market, so that people that are new to the hobby don't make the mistake of trusting the store employee and the bogus product. Then they end up with a tank of dead fish and either give up or make the same mistake and kill more fish.

I'm just trying to do my part to clean up the hobby just a little.

 

[adeebm]

The claim is too vague to be called misleading or to challenge them with any consumer laws. It does contain the bacteria the specify, just not enough to instantly cycle a tank for any reasonable amount of ammonia. Also, they never claim your fish will live, or be perfectly healthy. Now if they claimed something like "your fish will not get ammonia poisoning", that might be an arguable point. Exaggerated claims are made be almost every company, and there's not much you can do to stop them. Researching beforehand and taking everything with a grain of salt is all you can do.

EDIT: Theres no reason to take them off the market. It's a perfectly good bag of sand I suppose you could try to get the wording changed though.

--Adeeb

 

[severum mama]

I understand the effort that you're making... but at the same time, I think to myself, "caveat emptor".

 

[adeebm]

Modern business is preying on the misinformed as long as there are misinformed consumers, there will be businesses to capitalize on them. That holds true for every market.

--Adeeb

 

[WendiDell]

The claim is too vague to be called misleading or to challenge them with any consumer laws. It does contain the bacteria the specify, just not enough to instantly cycle a tank for any reasonable amount of ammonia. Also, they never claim your fish will live, or be perfectly healthy. Now if they claimed something like "your fish will not get ammonia poisoning", that might be an arguable point. Exaggerated claims are made be almost every company, and there's not much you can do to stop them. Researching beforehand and taking everything with a grain of salt is all you can do.

EDIT: Theres no reason to take them off the market. It's a perfectly good bag of sand I suppose you could try to get the wording changed though.

--Adeeb

It didn't seem vague to me, but your right about it being a perfectly good bag of sand. They should remove the instant cycle claim though. This may end up going nowhere but I won't know if I don't try. I'm tired of complaining about things but doing nothing to change it.

 

[Fishguy2727]

That is how advertising is. They word it so that it 'says' exactly what they want the customer to think when really half of it is what the customer infers. They leave it just vague enough to not really say anything meaningful at all. Even right on the label it says 'Bio-Activ' (a product name) not bio-active which would really mean something. And of course the 'live' has to have an asterisk.

 

[WendiDell]

That is how advertising is. They word it so that it 'says' exactly what they want the customer to think when really half of it is what the customer infers. They leave it just vague enough to not really say anything meaningful at all. Even right on the label it says 'Bio-Activ' (a product name) not bio-active which would really mean something. And of course the 'live' has to have an asterisk.

Thanks, I missed the asterisk, Place preferred bad word here.
WOW they get you any way they can. I'm not finished, I will find some way to shine a light, if it's the last thing I do. There are some things in this hobby that need to change.
When I was a little kid (a long time ago) every kid I knew had a goldfish in a bowl. None of us had a clue that it could grow so big or live for more than a couple years. And all these years later nothings changed. They still sell tiny gold fish and Betta bowls to kids. How can nothing change in more than 40 (I hate to admit to) years?