Jag in a 75?

[LayzorBeams]

Hiya...

So, I'm completely aware of the traditional response to what I'm about to ask... "A 125!" Or "get a 125 asap"...

But this is a bit different...

At my LFS, they have two Jags, a male and female, each in a 40 breeder with some Oscars and JDs and whatnot.

As you can imagine, Nitrates would go through the roof each day, I'm sure. Pair that with only weekly WC on those tanks, probably not great feeding, and aggressive tankmates, and i can imagine you get a stunted fish.

Ive been doing my own research and there is a good few people who keep Jags in 75s. Some even breed them in there. I think the 125 minimum is fairly recent... Yes, these fish can get big, but i think rarely over 14 inches and, especially in this case, i think smaller... It like Oscars, they CAN reach almost 2 feet but usually are just over a two-thirds of that. 11-12 inches, max of a bit over 18.

So, could i try these Jags in the 75 if the Texas don't work out?

Im not prone to overfeeding, willing to do 50% WC 2-3 times a week, and willing to have a wet-pet if the 2 Jags arent compatible. And i could keep the female, which more than likely wont overgrow the tank... And 1100 GPH of filtration running through this tank.

Ive decided to give the Texas to Thanksgiving. Thats like a month. If they haven't bred by then, I'm going to do something else.


Im not really looking for downright refusal, a detailed explanation will help sway my thoughts here. If you think it wont work, tell me why. All i see is me "rescuing" 2 fish...

So, my question is: will a male and female jag, stunted (probably beyond reversible) work in a well-maintained 75??


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[Brookster123]

What if someone with a 200 gal tank is asking the same question in another forum? Maybe ask the lfs to call you if they sit for another month?

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[LayzorBeams]

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/archive/index.php/t-23807.html

This is one forum that I've found to be decently detailed. Its 3 pages of pretty decent stuff, although it isn't necessarily based on fact over educated opinions/guesses


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[Brookster123]

Dude. It's a small tank for a big fish.. there's nothing anyone can say to change that. Do what makes you happy.. you know..

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[LayzorBeams]

What if someone with a 200 gal tank is asking the same question in another forum? Maybe ask the lfs to call you if they sit for another month?

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Ive seen them there for 3 months, they are becoming quite lethargic and have noticeable HILLE... Ive observed them come in as decently healthy and go downhill...

Its more than a good few would be willing to take on especially when there is a chance it wont work out. I do like the personality, and would like to dave them as well as have them in my tank...

This is also a pretty small LFS. High prices, low "fan base"... Not a good chance of someone buying them, i think.

Also, it will be a month before Thanksgiving. I will probably have to wait longer than that before i actually buy them.

This isn't meant at all towards you, but I'm more so looking for info on if it has a decent shot of working out, a pair of them in the 75. Again, not at all a shot at you


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[LayzorBeams]

Dude. It's a small tank for a big fish.. there's nothing anyone can say to change that. Do what makes you happy.. you know..

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Im not going to try to say j could give the fish (plural or singular) a great life, but it would be an improvement and I'm willing to spend my money when they might die anyways. This is in no way a perfect scenario for me or them, but i can get them and upgrade later, possibly. They don't really have that luxury at the LFS, do they?

The tank size limit is relative to the specific specimen, bot the species. That is BS if you say so. You can say a Dovii needs a 220, and a fully grown, large male does. But a genetically smaller male, or a stunted one, or a female doesnt. It isnt about the species its about the fish, and giving each one the best life you can.

These ones are stunted. No questions there. Im betting they wont grow much, if anything. They are the right size for a 75. At 10", that's smaller than a lot of Oscars, is it not? And Oscars pace around the tank a lot, Jags are usually more stationary. So why should i not attempt to save these fish. I can give them a better life and i think they will die soon anyways...

Answer that, with some backup, and it can sway me... Saying "its a big species of fish" isn't really a reason. Its a basis for the usual fish, but these arent the usual fish.

It would be an improvement on their life, wouldn't it?


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[LayzorBeams]

Im not going to try to say j could give the fish (plural or singular) a great life, but it would be an improvement and I'm willing to spend my money when they might die anyways. This is in no way a perfect scenario for me or them, but i can get them and upgrade later, possibly. They don't really have that luxury at the LFS, do they?

The tank size limit is relative to the specific specimen, bot the species. That is BS if you say so. You can say a Dovii needs a 220, and a fully grown, large male does. But a genetically smaller male, or a stunted one, or a female doesnt. It isnt about the species its about the fish, and giving each one the best life you can.

These ones are stunted. No questions there. Im betting they wont grow much, if anything. They are the right size for a 75. At 10", that's smaller than a lot of Oscars, is it not? And Oscars pace around the tank a lot, Jags are usually more stationary. So why should i not attempt to save these fish. I can give them a better life and i think they will die soon anyways...

Answer that, with some backup, and it can sway me... Saying "its a big species of fish" isn't really a reason. Its a basis for the usual fish, but these arent the usual fish.

It would be an improvement on their life, wouldn't it?


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[LayzorBeams]

And i quoted myself when i meant to edit... Again.

Greaaaaatttt...


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[Delapool]

I must admit I'm never keen on rescue fish (sick, stunted, etc). Here it tends to bring problems to an otherwise healthy tank and it's also difficult to rehome them later on. I'm probably biased the other way so just my 2 cents.

 

[HUKIT]

If your that concerned rescue and euthanize them, seems more humane than putting them in slightly better conditions than they are currently...

 

[Delapool]

I must confess I have done the occasional betta rescue. Usually followed shortly thereafter by the purchase of another spare tank.

Saying no to friends/neighbours can be hard as well. Goldfish seem a popular offer.

 

[Rivers2k]

You could rescue the female. At least give one of them a chance. But not the male and definitely not the pair. 75 gallon tanks are a deceitful size they are a small large tank. Just on the edge of being able to house large fish but not really large enough. people look at a 12" ruler and think thats not to long but get a piece of card board cut a 12"x7" square and tape it to your tank and then ask how many fish that size would be "happy" in that tank.

 

[Brookster123]

What other fish do have in your goldfish tank? How about telling us more about your tank:

• size tank
• other fish present
• temp
• ammonia
• nitrite
• nitrate
• ph
• what king of goldfish

Goldfish are not considered a community fish. They are cold water fish (most other aquarium fish are tropical species), and they produce alot of waste. They are also typicaly herbivores requiring lots of plant matter in there diet.

Sorry I didn't notice the 5g reference. There is no goldfish that is suitable for a 5g tank. That is almost certainly the problem.

Good call man!
Quoted rivers
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[LayzorBeams]

You could rescue the female. At least give one of them a chance. But not the male and definitely not the pair. 75 gallon tanks are a deceitful size they are a small large tank. Just on the edge of being able to house large fish but not really large enough. people look at a 12" ruler and think thats not to long but get a piece of card board cut a 12"x7" square and tape it to your tank and then ask how many fish that size would be "happy" in that tank.

Ok, i could do the female i guess...

And I'm not trying to say they would be "happy"... I like the fish's attitude, its very human orientated. Its a stunted fish, it wont grow to 20 inches. I would be surprised if it grew past 12...And yes, i could put it down. But I'm not spending a hundo on 2 fish just to kill them. They can live in the tank, they are the same size or smaller than the average Oscar, arent they?? It would give them a better life, i would get to enjoy them, they are alive, and its a *possibility* i could upgrade later, to a 120 or 125...

People breed them in 75s, and those are healthy fish, which still have the opportunity to get bigger... These don't, not really.

I agree; big fish, not big enough tank. But i do like them, i do want them. Is there any concrete reason why it couldn't work?

Again, this isn't something i will for sure do, and if i do, i know it still might not work well. Im just looking for some solid stuff as to why these 10" fish couldn't live in a tank when many people breed 12" Oscars or Midas in 75s...


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[LayzorBeams]

And don't get me wrong. This isn't all to save the fish. Part of it is that i want to have some bigger fish, i want to breed if possible... Im not going to hide behind the excuse that its just for them. But it is, partially.




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[TMRC Exotics]

And don't get me wrong. This isn't all to save the fish. Part of it is that i want to have some bigger fish, i want to breed if possible... Im not going to hide behind the excuse that its just for them. But it is, partially.




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Well then it sounds a bit selfish. Here let me boil it down in a single quote and then get your opinion on that.

"Hi, I have a 75 but I want to put a jaguar cichlid in it even though I know its too small, will anyone help me justify it?"

I know you will likely respond with 5 paragraphs of rebuttal, but please don't, instead read the quote then ask yourself what you would reply if a member on AA posted it. I'm not saying its impossible, or attacking the idea, I just wanted to offer an outside opinion. I understand the saving the fishies concept but the LFS will just order more to the same fate, I honestly think it helps more when the LFS takes a loss on an expensive fish it can't home. Over all I'm with brookster, do what makes you happy, I won't judge or hate on you for getting them, I'm only providing my opinion.

 

[Tbox]

^^^agreed.
A 75gal has countless other better possibilities.
It's not a hobby to be selfish and impatient. You know better, but want to go against your better judgment. I can't help you justify this move. Explore some other ideas.
It's a lifetime hobby, where in your final days you will have only scratched the surface of learning it all.


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[Rivers2k]

Ok, i could do the female i guess...

Your kind of all over the place here so let see
And I'm not trying to say they would be "happy"... Then don't do it I like the fish's attitude, its very human orientated. yes they are but you can't house them Its a stunted fish, it wont grow to 20 inches. I would be surprised if it grew past 12...Probably not true and still to big for a pair in your 75And yes, i could put it down. But I'm not spending a hundo on 2 fish just to kill them. They can live in the tank, they are the same size or smaller than the average Oscar, arent they?? Similar length yes but very different fish, oscars shouldn't be paired in a 75 eitherIt would give them a better life,No i would get to enjoy them,not as much as properly housed fish you could choose fromthey are alive,not much of a life and its a *possibility* i could upgrade later, to a 120 or 125... wait till then to get them

People breed them in 75s, not people that care about fish and they do breed at 6"'s and those are healthy fish, which still have the opportunity to get bigger... These don't, not really. not true

I agree; big fish, not big enough tank. But i do like them, i do want them. Is there any concrete reason why it couldn't work? you have already been given many you don't want to hear it

Again, this isn't something i will for sure do, and if i do, i know it still might not work well. Im just looking for some solid stuff as to why these 10" fish they will get bigger than 10" and they are aggressive needing bigger territories one will get killedcouldn't live in a tank when many people breed 12" Oscars or Midas in 75s... Not true there are not many people breeding oscars and midas in 75's also fish will breed before the are fully grown


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There are so many awesome options for a 75. No need to cram two in. If you really do like them get the female. I want a nice big jag myself but I don't have one because right now my largest tanks are 75's.

 

[LayzorBeams]

Well then it sounds a bit selfish. Here let me boil it down in a single quote and then get your opinion on that.

"Hi, I have a 75 but I want to put a jaguar cichlid in it even though I know its too small, will anyone help me justify it?"

I know you will likely respond with 5 paragraphs of rebuttal, but please don't, instead read the quote then ask yourself what you would reply if a member on AA posted it. I'm not saying its impossible, or attacking the idea, I just wanted to offer an outside opinion. I understand the saving the fishies concept but the LFS will just order more to the same fate, I honestly think it helps more when the LFS takes a loss on an expensive fish it can't home. Over all I'm with brookster, do what makes you happy, I won't judge or hate on you for getting them, I'm only providing my opinion.

I can agree, yes. A bit selfish on me...

But to what you said. If someone brought up this scenario, i would say "well, they might kill each other. They are a bit big for the tank... And unless you are really going to be on point with WC and aggression issues, then you shouldn't do the pair."

The only reason that this idea came to me at all is because these fish are stunted. They have lived in tiny cramped spaces all their life. They wont get to the mythical 20" Jag.

Look up the AVERAGE length for a Jag. Most usually get to 15". This is a bit above reasonable. But, pair that with them really not being able to grow a lot more because of a long life of tiny spaces and high exposure to Nitrates and stuff... They are, physically, a decent size for this tank.

I will try to make this as clear as i can: the only reason i even consider this an option is because these are fish that wont physically outgrow the tank, and they will die at the LFS.

If it was a normal Jag, i wouldn't. Ive had the opportunity. They sell them for $2 at my LFS. If i just wanted a Jag, those would do. I just think that these fish are the right size for it. If they have compatible attitudes, then why couldn't they work??

Im willing to bet my fish tanks that if you took a trip in time you could find someone keeping a perfectly healthy pair of footlong Jags in a 75 or 90, which are nearly the same.

And if i must bring it up: they are PETS. They belong in a LAKE. We deprived them of that for our own selfish reasons and everyone who supports this hobby at all falls into that category. Me included. So is this whole thing selfish? Yeah. It is, a good part of it is. But IF I was to do this, how would the life NOT be better?

They have more space, a plus. Less tankmates, a plus. Proper feeding, a plus. And overall good care, a plus. So just answer this, at least. How would it be WORSE??!?

Again, I'm sorry if i seem heated up. I am, to be perfectly honest. And its because all i see are people who are being somewhat unreasonable. I understand perfectly well that this, in MOST cases, is a fish too large for this tank. No questions there. But, this is not the normal fish, I'm not sure how i can make that as clear as i see it... They are stunted, if you saw them you would agree. They can be healthy again, but i doubt they will grow anything much. So thats why I'm a bit ornery over this. I see it being an improved, even if only slightly, life for the fish. They are the right size, i like them. Im would be willing to part with them if i did buy them and it didn't work out.

And another thing that this relates to... Tank size. Why is it that every fish of one species needs a uniform tank size? People are considered crap if they keep an Oscar in a 40 or 55 even though people did it for years and kept them healthy. Bettas used to be kept in clay pots or jars, and new water everyday. But now, thats cruel. So even if you think I've gone a bit crazy, which i may have, at least see what I'm trying to point out?? This is a different scenario than the norm.

Im not asking you to justify this. That is my responsibility to myself and any fish i choose to keep. Im, in fact, asking to prove me wrong. But because this is different, i don't feel like saying "Jags are big fish" is evidence.

Im honestly not trying to be rude here. I just get ticked when people are close-minded, although that may seem hypocritical to you in light of this thread.

So that was a 12 para, 2 line rebuttal. Fun.


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[Rivers2k]

You tire me out LOL. Read very carefully Nobody is talking about a 20" fish. I used the example 12" a 12" jag PAIR is to big for a 75 period. I am not going to give you more reasons becasue you aren't going to listen.

Stunted fish will still grow. 12" aggressive jag is to big. If you want permission you wont find it here. The female will work. You probably have 80 -100 or more years combined experience on this thread alone. take the advice or not. you asked for the advice you got.

NO WONT WORK.