Lot's of new newbie questions.

[spittinfly]

Alright, here go the questions. I have a 35gl hex tank, and plan on having a freshwater setup. I may start the cycle with a couple of fish, maybe convicts. I inherited all the stuff from my brother in law who hadn't used the stuff in 3 yrs. No filter just tank, stand and rocks (coral). I rinsed the rocks in freshwater and then soaked them for a week in salt water no filter or pump. I also had tap water sitting in the tank for about 2 weeks no treatment no filter or pump. Should I keep this water or start fresh? Also while cleaning the rock, on a couple of the lava rocks I have found some green bushy growth that feels very fresh. Will it grow in the tank or probably not (he had a freshwater setup too). The rocks I have some have a greenish tint to them, some are white and some are yellowish and a couple of Lava rock looking ones too. I was in San Diego last week and picked some shells from the beach by the ocean. I hope to be able to put them in the bottom of the tank. Are there any precautions I have to take or how do I have to clean them? Ok, I know I will have a lot more questions but these will get me started. I found this site and think you all have the best advice around so I feel in good hands.

Thanks for all the help, I can't wait to start.

 

[SPARTAN VI]

From one newbie to another, welcome to AA!

I'm interested in what the pro's have to say about your choice in decor. I hope I was paying attention in Oceanography class, but I vaguely remember coral and limestone (yellow rock) being comprised a calcareous sediment and are generally more basic in pH (7+). This may actually raise the pH of your water. So, you'll want to shop for fish that enjoy your neutral to basic environment.

 

[theotheragentm]

If it was in his tank and it didn't kill the fish, you are probably okay with it. If you don't want it in your tank, boil some water, toss the rocks into the water and then let them dry off for a day or two in the sun. Lava rocks should be fine in the tank. It's used in filters a lot of times.

As far as cycling with fish, I would advise against it. Fishless cycling is more humane. The reason it's not used that often is that it is still a relatively new practice based on more recent knowledge of how ammonia and nitrites harm fish. You can do a quick search and find lots of threads on how to do it. If you still decide against it, please get some biospira to seed the tank.

 

[spittinfly]

Yeah, I wasn't sure about the fish cycle and I will probably get some tetra water conditioner(?) to speed it up. I am going to have to get into all the levels once I really get the tank set up. I just don't know (understand) all the steps to cycle the tank. Don't know if I should save the water in there now or start fresh. Does the amonia and chlorine in tap water leave the water as it stands? I know lot's of ?'s.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Tetra water condition isn't going to speed up a cycle. Bio-Spira or established filter media will. Get yourself a bottle of Prime, it's all you'll need in regards to water treatment, it will remove the chlorine/chloramines.

Don't use the seashells if you really like them. They will dissolve over time. It will also increase your hardness and pH. I would advise against convincts in a tank of that shape and size. They like to re-populate on a quick basis. Have you thought about maybe some community fish?

In regards to the growth, I soaked my rocks in bleach water for a day. Then I sucked out all the water and added fresh with a 5x dose of Prime. I changed it every day for about a week, always over dosing the prime. Better safe than sorry.

 

[theotheragentm]

Chlorine will leave the water. Chloramines will not. You want to get a water conditioner to treat water for chlorine, chloramines, and other metals rather than waiting for things to evaporate out of it or filtering it yourself. SeaChem Prime is the product of choice for a lot of the people in the forums here. Do a search for it. It's pretty cheap and it's more heavily concentrated than other products, so less goes a long way still.

The water should just be dumped. There's nothing useful in there.

If you're going to cycle with fish, you need a product called BioSpira, not just a water conditioner. When you have fish in a tank, you want bacteria to handle bioload. Fish create ammonia for waste. Bacteria convert the ammonia to nitrites, and bacteria convert nitrites to nitrates. Nitrates are generally removed with water changes.

FISH > AMMONIA > NITRITES > NITRATES > WATER CHANGE

Any levels of ammonia and nitrites are deadly to fish. That is why you try to create a cycle before adding fish. This allows the bacteria to build up so it can already be there to handle the bioload when you do add fish. BioSpira is a bacteria culture. It adds a colony of bacteria to handle the bioload rather than letting it grow on its own. I highly encourage you to use BioSpira if you do decide to cycle with a tank. The reason I would choose fishless cycling still over cycling with BioSpira is that it gives you an insight on how the waste cycle works for these fish so you can learn to care for them better. It's tough to see at first, but it makes more and more sense the more times you see it.

 

[spittinfly]

Alright more ?'s. Do I need a filter and a pump. I heard that the filter can act as the pump. I have a HOB tetra single 30+ filter. Also should I completely change the filter or just swish it around in the outgoing waterchange water to get the debris off it and keep using it?

I want to do this right so I am trying to ask all the questions first. And I will do a fishless cycle, just to relax everybody.

 

[rich311k]

The filter will do the job. I rinse my sponges in old tank water until they fall apart. The pump is up to you. If you like the look of bubbles then by all means get one, it is not mandatory equipment.

 

[theotheragentm]

Like Rich said, rinse it with the outgoing water change water and it should be fine. When it does fall apart, I would cram it in with the new filter media. This will help seed the new media. After a week, you can remove the old media.

 

[spittinfly]

Thanks for all the help from everyone. Most of my ?'s seem to be answered already. I just have to get the plants from him and clean them up and set it up. Am I clear that I need Bio-spira or SeaChem Prime to start the cycle without fish or is there a better way?

Oh, yeah. What type of substrate should I use? Small, med, glass beads? I know it depends on the fish and yes I want a community tank but I want the most colorful, active and easy to see for my 2 yr old. Any suggestions?

 

[Zagz]

Have you considered pool filter sand? It is natural colored and most fish show up really well against it. Also a black background will bring out the fish's colors.

Prime doesn't speed up your cycle Bio spira does if you can obtain it. Prime is a dechlorinator that you add to the water for water changes.

 

[toddnbecka]

Given the shape and dimensions of the tank, as well as the fact you want to use natural shells for decorations, I'd recommend some colorful mollies to entertain your 2yo. Mollies thrive in hard, alkaline water (which is what coral and/or shells will produce, even if it doesn't come out of the tap that way.) A bristlenose pleco would be helpful to keep algae growth under control, as well as the diatoms that seem to turn up in all new setups.
Aside from being a bad idea for cycling, most cichlids aren't a good choice for that type of tank. One possible exception would be some Tanganykian shell-dwellers like N. multifasciatus. They would also appreciate the water chemistry and get along well enough with mollies, but the proposed BN pleco may have territorial issues.

 

[spittinfly]

If I seal the shells with varnish or some other means would that fix the hardness issue or would it just create a whole new set of problems?

Ok, not doubting anyone but, why wouldn't cichlids be a good choice for my tank? I will have lots of rocks with a good amount of floor space. I also expect my plants to add cover probably all the way up the tank. I was thinking they would be a better match with my higher ph if I use the shells. Would African or Central American (?) be better?

 

[toddnbecka]

Most species of cichlids will claim a larger territory than a hex tank bottom. Dwarf species would fit better than larger ones, but Apisto's aren't particularly fond of liquid rock. African cichlids are the best suited to very hard, alkaline water conditions, but most tend to be even more territorial/aggressive than CA species. Multi's are colony fish, a pair or trio will gradually increase to several dozen w/out killing each other off.
They're also much less likely to bother live plants, unless they get dug up (they're small, but they're srill cichlids, and like to arrange the tank their own way.) Many CA species will eat live plants.

 

[spittinfly]

Sorry, what exactly are Multi's? And can I mix Cichlids with any other fish maybe clown loaches? Also what about invertibre's? Would they be safe? Liquid rock? Do you mean just all the rock that I do have (sorry for the newb questions)?

 

[theotheragentm]

Neolamprologus multifasciatus.

http://images.google.com/images?um=1&tab=wi&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=Neolamprologus multifasciatus

 

[toddnbecka]

In a hex tank, you have a very limited "floorspace" for any territorial fish. Even relatively peaceful/social fish like Corydoras need some swimming space, so your stocking number is limited by that consideration.
Invert's are generally best kept separate from fish, at least regarding shrimp and crayfish. Snails are a different matter, much less likely to be eaten in general. Even large shrimp or crayfish are soft when they molt, and cichlids will pick them to pieces if they don't have sufficient hiding places until the new shell hardens.
By liquid rock I meant very hard water, a by-product of having coral or shells in an aquarium. Most species of CA or SA cichlids come from softer water, (rivers or streams) while the African rift lake fish live in liquid rock naturally. Limestone is a very common element in that region, and it creates water chemistry completely different than flowing water.
Livebearers like mollies, swordtails, etc. also prefer hard, alkaline water. They aren't territorial or bottom-dwelling fish, are generally colorful, active, and inexpensive.
In any case, that size tank is entirely too small for clown loaches. They need to be kept in a group to be happy, and will eventually grow to well over 12" if they are properly cared for.

 

[spittinfly]

Thanks for the great info. I will definitly look in to the Livebearers, would inverts be ok in a more communal tank with the livebearers? Would Tetras be a good tankmate also?

 

[theotheragentm]

Tetras can be nippers, especially the ones that are larger. If you are looking into Tetras, I suggest Harlequin Rasboras based on personal preference. They are schooling fish that are quite peaceful.

Just be aware that livebearers breed like crazy. The fact that they give live birth means a higher survival rate of fry. It's often a concern of population explosion with these fish. Be aware what sexes you are buying the fish in as all males will sometimes become aggressive towards each other, a mix will result in a population boom, and females are often already pregnant when purchased, so you may end up with population boom anyway.

Invertebrates work well with community fish. Ghost Shrimp are a very inexpensive way to go. I also like Golden Mystery Snails, but I've read the most common reason for death for them is starvation so keeping on top of feeding these guys, while not trying to overfeed the fish is tough sometimes.

 

[spittinfly]

How about crawfish? I was thinking about a couple of those on the bottom or some type of cat. And if I go with some crays can I get them from a local pond or river? And would some rocks or something from a creek be a good seed source for bacteria? My LFS (local FOOD store) has cooked shrimp, can I use some other type of seafood if I go that route for cycling?