My Betta Has a New Friend!

[Yeti]

I went out to the LFS and decided eh what the hell Ill buy 1 ghost shrimp. This little guy was fun to try to catch from his bag to the bowl - Apparently they can jump about 6"! nobody told me this!!

finally I got him in the bowl and he swam around for a little bit and then he dissappeared! I freaked out and thought somehow he got out or was crushed by the rocks, or even the Betta ate him! but no, I found him hiding.. they are masters of hiding actually.

I believe shrimp are nocturnal and like to come out when its dark to eat and play am I correct? I bought some algae discs for him to munch on (i broke them up into tiny pieces) but there is lots of betta poop and stuff to eat as well.. I have named him Jacques!

Here are some pix..

(sorry for the crappy pix, I took them on my phone)

comments thoughts whatever.. thanks!

 

[theotheragentm]

That bowl looks too small for the Betta. It looks like less than half a gallon. I would give more room to a Betta. Also, while I have seen shrimp eat poo from a fish, they should not be eating this as a food source. Feed him algae wafers. It only takes a sliver of one to keep him happy each day probably.

 

[QTOFFER]

Beautiful betta!
The pics came out just fine. I can barely make out the ghost shrimp - they have the ability to just blend in.

I also hope you'll get a bigger tank - at least a 2.5 gal. I have a 2.5 gal betta tank at work that takes up no more desk space than a 3 hole paper puncher. Five gal tanks run for nearly the same price and are much easier to maintain stable temps and pH. There are also 3 and 6 gal Eclipse aquarium systems that include filtration and lighting for a reasonable price.

Bettas originate from Thailand (hot, tropical; they need a stable temp around 78oF) where they live in shallow pools several inches to a few feet deep, but thousands of square feet in area. That bettas can survive in tiny isolated pools of stagnant water only a few inches deep led to the myth that they can survive long term captivity in small cups and bowls.

There's a HUGE difference between SURVIVING and THRIVING. To provide an analogy - people can survive polar climates and go without food for weeks. That doesn't mean that it's a particularly good idea to raise your kids in Antarctica and feed them once a month. A betta certainly can survive in a cup, but it requires a larger filtered tank with a stable pH and 78oF temp in order to thrive.

The ghost shrimp should get along just fine with the betta. It's a scavenger that will eat anything that falls to the bottom. A small piece of algae wafer or shrimp pellet every day or so would be best. Just be sure to remove any uneaten food after a few hours or it may foul the water. To my knowledge, there is no bottomdweller that actually eats poop. They will pick undigested matter out of poop and eat it to survive, but would much prefer some sort of sinking food designed for bottomdwellers.

 

[Yeti]

Yeah well this was just temp housing for him until i get my tank established. I got my decor and plants in today (although not all of them, more is in the mail) and I put him in my 55gal (to start a cycle) and since he's pretty hardy it wont effect him much. the tank is 78-80 degrees and filtered. all the water conditions are good to go for him. so now I just wait.

as for the shrimp i know poop isnt a food source, i have the little agae discs for him to munch on, he will stay in the old betta bowl until I get the 55 gal established and some algae builds up in there.. plus trying to catch him is impossible! haha. Im not sure how he would hold up in the 55 gal just yet.

theres a pic now, more to come when I get my other stuff in the mail.

 

[Zagz]

Gorgeous betta, glad you have a bigger tank for him. I would use pure ammonia rather than the betta for cycling. Or a couple of jumbo shrimp.

 

[An t-iasg]

One betta is not a good choice to cycle a 55 gallon tank, plus one little betta to cycle that tank will take forever. Bettas are just as sensitive to ammonia as any other fish. At the end of the cycle, if the betta makes it that far, you'll only have enough bacteria to filter the waste of one betta. When you add other fish, you'll see another cycle since the small amount of bacteria is overwhelmed by the larger fish load. Please find another method to cycle the tank (Zagz gave some good suggestions) and remove the betta in the meantime. I do agree that a heated, filtered tank is better for a betta than a bowl, but do not subject the betta to the cycling process.

 

[QTOFFER]

Glad to hear you have a bigger tank for that gorgeous betta. Till then, he will be OK in the bowl so long as you do very frequent water changes and don't overfeed. He will be in heaven in a 55 gal!

I think that the ammonia gnerated by one betta in a 55 gal would probably be so diluted, it would never reach toxic levels or even cycle the tank - unless you didn't do water changes for weeks.

I'd suggest cycling the tank without fish - using raw shrimp or pure ammonia.

Once the big tank is cycled, you can add the betta and get him some friends. Corys, most tetras, and rasboras come to mind. Avoid gouramis and nippy fish like barbs and serpae tetras. Good luck!

 

[courtnee]

Welcome fellow SDakotan. I am in Sioux Falls on the other side of the state.

I own a 55gl myself. These people on here are wonderful and the education and information you can gather on these forums are priceless. I came here in my journey to have healthy fish and fish tanks that were healthy. I have managed that and even started to take on harder to care for fishies!

They are right that the Betta will not cycle your tank. You dont want just a betta in a 55gl and you dont want the mess of cycling with fish either. I tried it and never will do it again. It is more work to do a fish cycle then it is to do a fishless cycle.

Fish cycle... you have to worry about the levels and trying to save the fish. PWC are a lot of work and at times you will end up doing two huge ones a day just to help your fish survive and even then the levels are still toxic. The fish can get sick, some will die and it is just a mess.

Fishless.. no fish to worry about, less work and easy! I did the cocktail shrimp method. Go to the grocery store and get a few pieces of raw unseasoned raw cocktail shrimp (cost me like $2) and toss them in the tank and let it work its magic for a few weeks!

When you are done you can put the Betta in and go out and buy your stock of fish and put them all in at once.

 

[Yeti]

well.. i trust all of your judgement and I will remove the betta and put him back in his bowl, I am going to do a PWC to his bowl first and then fill it back up..

Raw shrimp eh.. so just a couple shrimp? I suppose rip the tails off just so its not as nasty?.. also.. say im doing a PWC for my 55 gal, of course I need the water im putting IN to mock the water that is already in the tank right? So.. how do I do large quantities of it? I was thinking about getting a 5 gal bucket, putting water in it that feels about the same temp, putting my dechlorination solution etc in it, then pour it in (dont have a powerhead to pump it in..) right? or am I missing something here?

thanks guys all your knowledge has really help me so far! I feel like its a tease taking my betta out of the 55gal and putting him back in the crappy bowl for another month or so lol..

oh and BTW for you that said he's too big for his bowl the picture makes his bowl look small, its about 1.5 gal or so.. its tolerable for now..

 

[courtnee]

Get a Python It is worth every cent you will pay for it seriously! I do 50% PWC and gravel vac every week due to the load in my tank. I used a bucket to do just 10-20% PWC at first and it was too much. Putting a heavy 5gl bucket in doesnt seem to make much of a dent in a 55gl lol

The Python will hook to your sink. The water from the faucet will go right into the tank. It gravel vacs and fills. I do not care for the gravel vac pressure myself and I know there are several on here that agree to that. It doesnt seem to suck up enough gunk for me. I use a normal gravel vac and a 5gl bucket to clean the tank.

I hook up the Python to fill. Add your water treatment right into the tank before you fill it and just make sure the water coming in is close to what is in the tank.

The popular treatment for water in this forum is Prime. I changed over to Prime myself and very pleased with it. It is $10 for a good sized bottle at Petco. I still have half a bottle and I use it on a 55gl and a 10gl 50% PWC as I said every week and I bought it a few months ago. It is a good bang for your buck.

Petco also has a Python. You are looking at $40 for the Python and Prime together. I just checked and I am shocked you do not have a Petco or a Petsmart in Rapid City area!!!! Many on here use http://www.bigalsonline.com/ the prices are cheap.

Also testing your water.. what do you have to do that? You will need to keep tabs on it as the tank cycles and even after it cycles.

Big Als online has

Python 25' - $25.99
Prime 500ml - $10.99

The test kit they suggest on here I can not recall at the moment it is a master test kit. Someone will post. I myself have bought ammonia, nitrIte and nirAte and PH kits all in their own package. When I use them up I plan to buy the kit that they suggest on here. They last a long time either way but the kit that has them all in one is MUCH cheaper. The Ph test alone does like 250 tests and the ammonia 70 I think it is. Liquid testing is the only way to go.

 

[Yeti]

ooook so I get this stupid python thing..(which is another damn thing i have to buy..) and it pumps water from my sink to the tank? cant I just use a hose? my water from my sink is disgusting and needs to be dechlorinated.

I was told to do like about 10-15% PWCs every week vs one huge one every other week or whatever.. and Im going to do that..

I am sick and tired of no matter WHAT I say Im going to add or do to my tank, its not good enough, somebody always has to say "oooh no thats bad dont do that, this is what I did, and this is what I bought, so you should do it too!" its like I cant do anything right.. wtf! ... this is really starting to become more troublesome than fun.


also how does a gravel vac work? it basically sucks the crap out of the rocks but desnt disturb the gravel? I will have a lot of plants and decor and dont want to be jacking it up every week when I use this thing.. and doesnt that suck up whatever leftover food is on the gravel, thus taking food away from my algae eaters? - the only place they would find the algae is stuck to decor or plants... thats kind of crappy...

thanks

 

[An t-iasg]

There are different ways to achieve the same result - we are all sharing our ways and hope that you learn from our mistakes. We were all newbies once and it could be overwhelming sometimes. Hang in there!

About the python - many people love them. I don't have one because I only have 5 and 10 gallon tanks. I use a bucket and a pump. I choose to fill my bucket up the night before a change. I add a heater and a small pump to the bucket for circulation and temperature control. I use another, slightly bigger, pump and a vinyl hose to pump the new water up to the tank. You could do this or you could choose to fill your bucket right from your tap. Match the temperature by adjusting the hot and cold taps. You can use a thermometer if you want, but you can feel if it's the right temp. too. Your sense of feel is pretty accurate in judging water temps. Mostly everyone has to dechlorinate their water. Even if you have well water with no chlorine, the dechlorinator removes heavy metals.

I use a gravel vac in a planted tank. I don't uproot the plants. I just hover the vac around the substrate. I don't disturb the substrate too much. Just waving the vac around is good enough to get some debris to float up and then the vac picks them up. I push the vac into the gravel just slightly at the front wall of the tank - this is where debris builds up for my tank.

One recommendation for using a gravel vac is to only vac half of the tank at a water change, and then do the other half the next week. This way, you don't remove all the mulm that the beneficial bacteria reside on. The bottom feeders would find a bit of leftover food if you don't vac the whole tank, but a note of caution - too much leftover food can foul the tank. Only feed what the bottom feeders can finish in that day. If you see lots of leftover flakes on the gravel the next day, that's too much.

 

[rich311k]

Yeti everyone is just trying to help you out. Once your tank is established a weekly water change of 25 to 50% will work just fine. If your levels stay good you could even stretch that to every other week, depending on your stocking.

A python is a water change system that eliminates buckets. You attach it to a sink and drain the tank, afterwards you change directions and refill the tank. You add dechlor when you start filling the tank. Only real trick is matching temperatures. It is my favorite piece of equipment, if I did not have it I would be lugging buckets up two flights of stairs, it also doubles as a gravel vac.

You want to remove all the gunk and decaying food on the gravel. it just makes ammonia and puts more of a strain on your system. Your bottom feeders will have plenty to eat and you can supplement the algae eaters diets with algae wafers and fresh veggies.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

You don't have to buy a Python if you don't want to, but it will make water changes a LOT easier. I recommend a 50% water change once a week. That's 6 buckets of dirty water being tossed and 6 buckets of clean water being added. Some people still do it, but it's not as easy and is time consuming. You're going to knock around your substrate more using buckets than using a Python. And you'll spill more water on the floor with buckets.

You can't use a hose to empty the tank. For that you'll either need a gravel vac (with buckets) or the Python (no buckets). For refilling you could use a hose but it's not recommended unless you use one that is designed for drinking water.

The concept of the Python: You attach it to your faucet. When you turn on the water it starts a suction. Put the gravel vac part of the python into your tank. It will suck out the water. To refill just turn the piece next to the faucet, adjust the temp and it will put water back into the tank. Just add dechlor as it's filling and you'll be good to go.

The gravel vac will suck out the fish waste from the substrate. It also removes water at the same time. In my planted tank I hover the vac above the sand around the plants just to get any leaves off the substrate. That way I don't disturb the roots. In my non planted tanks I suck part of the snad into the tube for easy aquascaping. It will remove left over food, which is a good thing. Otherwise it will sit on the substrate and rot. What kind of algae eaters are you wanting to buy? Not all eat algae. You'll need to suppliment their diet with algae wafers anyway, not left over food.

We are here to help you. We're trying to keep you from doing the same mistakes that we did. Getting into this hobby can be very frustrating at first, but it's very rewarding once you get the hang of things.

 

[Marc118]

FWIW you can DIY a 50' python for $15.

 

[Yeti]

so what I understand is a Python will hook up via long hose to my tank, and the end with the larger tube that looks like a.. well you know.. goes in the tank and you just move it around to get the crud out right? I'd need about 25' of hose though!

and 50% PWC once a week?? I heard about 10% is just fine once a week.. so what is it, i keep hearing something diff.

Marc118 - do you know of a site for DIY 50' python?

On a sad note my shrimp died already! the water conditions were fine and everything.. I guess he was either sick before I got him, or it was due to stress. Better luck next time i guess..

I started a cycle on my tank today.. I threw in 2 cocktail shrimp; raw, uncooked etc.. so hopefully they will start to turn to goop soon.

Sorry for bin such a crab, just a bad day and very frustrated, thank you all for your help I have learned a lot so far and look forward to learning much more from you all!

 

[Fishyfanatic]

You have the concept right, yes. I believe the smallest version is 25'. I have a 50' since that's the distance from my kitchen sink to the 55 gal.

You will always hear varying opinions on water changes. I believe that you can never do enough water changes. It is a LOT easier to maintain a low Nitrate reading than it is to lower a high one. Why not keep the water at it's best? It doesn't take much more time to do a 50% than a 10%. The percentage can depend on your stocking. You'll get a feel for it once it's stocked and you start testing. I don't even test anymore. The 29 gal tank only has an Angel and a Candy Stripe Pleco. The bio load is minimal. They get a 75% change once a week. Do they need it? No. But I'd rather keep the Nitrates undetectable for pristine conditions.

No need to appologize. It's frustrating when you're just starting out. We've all had those days.....some of us have those months. I'm still frustrated as can be with my planted tank.

 

[Yeti]

Yeah I suppose if I have a python i might as well do 50% since im already standing there.. it makes sense..


I want to carry this thread over to an "aquarium log" type deal not sure where to put it. I made a suggestion to a couple mods but not sure if the idea got passed down or not; basically In "Freshwater & Brackish - Getting Started" (and i guess those guys over at saltwater can have one too ) create a sub directory called something like "Aquarium Journals" and basically every member can have their OWN thread they add onto whenever they feel necessary. people can leave their feedback etc on them too. Each member would title their thread like for example: "Yeti's Aquarium Journal" there I would post my day to day, or week to week activity, maintenance, current water conditions etc as I please.

what do you all think of this Idea? we use this sort of system over at Bodybuilding.com every person starts a 'workout journal" in the respective subdirectory and it keeps the boards free of clutter etc.. plus it makes it pretty fun to browse through everybody's logs and read whats working and what isnt..

PLEASE MR./MRS. MODS!? lol

thanks guys!

 

[Fishyfanatic]

It was discussed many months ago but the general consensus on logs is that they be placed in the appropriate forum. Otherwise we'll have too many sub forums.

 

[Yeti]

It was discussed many months ago but the general consensus on logs is that they be placed in the appropriate forum. Otherwise we'll have too many sub forums.

Right which is why there would be 1 subforum in FW and 1 in SW.. but hey you guys are the mods and I dont wanna step on any toes

thanks though