My Latest Plan of Action!

[Satsumas]

Firstly let me briefly explain from the beggining... I got hold of an old tank it's a 3 footer (20 gal long) and cleaned it up as this was an opportunity to try a high light heavy planted tank. I then bought the equipment... Fluval 205, Satelitte 96W light fixture, Eco complete, FLuval 100W heater. I had a problem with algae and i was hoping to tell you my latest plan on getting the tank set up to hopefully avoid algae and any other problems.

Recently my tank has been covered in algae twice, i bought some elodea densa and cabomba to act as nutrient sponges and prevent algae but i got it all wrong! When the ammonia dropped to 0ppm i put some in to feed my bacteria. This is where i didnt do my research and the inevitable happened, the tank was full of algae! I cleaned it all up but still fed the bacteria ammonia.

After about a week i reached the mercy point again and couldn't bare looking at the tank so i scrubbed the algae off, this was a quick job and i didn't do it aswell as the first time. At least i have stopped dosing ammonia now though! There is algae all over the substrate and it's a real pain to clear up!

This is what i plan to do in the near future...

Firstly i am going to order in some ferts... potassium nitrate, mono potassium phosphate, potassium sulphate, seachem flourish and plants Hemianthus callitrichoides, Micranthemum umbrosum and Hemianthus micranthemoides for the time being. (There the only plants i would like at the moment and i'm unsure of wether i want to do a SA biotope or not)

When the plants have been ordered i'll clear out as much algae as i can in preperation for their arrival and get the CO2 mixture made and set it up (DIY).

When the order arrives i'll plant up the tank with the nutrient sponges (which will be discarded of at some point) and the new arrivals which i plan on keeping.

How does this sound so far? Am i doing the right thing?
Will i need to get rid of all algae leftovers to prevent it from coming back? and will these plants be enough to steal the nutrients that algae need? I have roughly 10 cabomba and 20 anacharis (elodea densa) Also how long should i have the light on during the day? 8-10 hours?

TIA

 

[rkilling1]

The restart plan sounds fine.

Once you have the plants in and the CO2 going along with the ferts, you need to add an algae eating crew. Say 3 to 4 oto's and a SAE.

Once you have that all setup with those fish, give it a few weeks and then add some more fish.

 

[Purrbox]

Sounds like you're on the right track now.

Avoid fishless cycling with a planted tank, go for silent cycling instead. As you discovered High Light + Ammonia = Algae. With silent cycling you slowly increase the bioload to the desired levels. If it's planted heavily enough and you go slow enough you should never see a spike in Ammonia or Nitrite.

Clear out as much of the algae as you possibly can to improve your odds of avoiding it coming back. Plant heavily and keep you nutrients readily available and in balance and you should be able to keep the algae to a minimum.

Anywhere between 8-10 hours should be good.

 

[Satsumas]

Good, i'm glad that sounds ok.

I think i will get some oto's and was considering moving my BN pleco accross from my other tank.
I thought about getting a SAE but decided not too as they get quite a size, they can loose their appetite for algae, become aggressive with age, also they like to be kept in groups.

I am about to make an order of:
500g Potassium Nitrate
250g Potassium Sulphate
Seachem Flourish 100ml
Hemianthus Callitrichoides

I forget that i have a load of plants in the tank already so i only decided to get 1 more to start with. Partly due to the amount of plants i already have but also because i cant decide!
Also they don't have any Mono Potassium Sulphate in stock yet but will this matter yet? I assume they'll have some in next week but they should tell me via e-mail tommorow.

Is there anything else i should consider? Money is tight at the moment though.

EDIT: I have algae on all the plants. Last time when i rinsed it off under tap water it came back. Will i have to do a bleach dip? If so what is the concentration and how long do i leave them in it?

TIA

 

[Satsumas]

*Bump*

 

[Purrbox]

Until you have all the necessary ferts on hand you could still have problems getting your nutrients balanced, especially if your tank is short on the one thing you need. Of course one week isn't likely to be too bad, but if you have to wait longer could be more of an issue.

A bleach dip is only for removing the existing algae and any hitchhikers that might be present. It will not prevent the algae from coming back. You need to get your nutrients in balance to do that. If rinsing the plants removes the algae, then stick to that since it is less damaging to the plants.

 

[Satsumas]

Thanks Purrbox, you've been a great help so far!

Earlier i done my best to remove as much algae as possible. I scrubbed the glass with an old toothbrush in the difficult to reach places/small nooks and an algae magnet.
Then i stirred up the eco complete and syphoned as much algae off the bottom as possible.
I done a pretty good job but i'll never get it all, i'm hoping that some algae eaters like oto's and shrimp which i might get soon will clear up the rest.

I finally got some yeast today!
Shall i make up the solution and get it going now? I'll rinse the plants in the meantime and then put them back in.

 

[Purrbox]

I'd go ahead and get you CO2 started now. If you've cut back on lighting while waiting to get the CO2 and ferts going, leave it cut back until you've got everything in place. It may take some fiddling to get the CO2 working the way you want, so the sooner you start working on it the better. Also CO2 is beneficial at any lighting level, so getting it going can only help. Keep in mind that you are aiming for CO2 levels as steady as possible (taking into consideration the CO2 is variable by nature) and above 30ppm. Fluctuating levels below 30ppm can lead to BBA, which is why it is so important to get your levels above 30ppm.

 

[dapellegrini]

The Potassium Sulphate (K2SO4) is the least important of the nutrients that you are receiving. It is basically used to help supplement your Potassium (K+). I use it and would recommend you do as well, but I hear from folks like Tom Barr (the guy who came up with EI) that if you are dosing your Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) correctly you should be getting plenty of potassium (K+) in there already and should not need the extra supplement. I guess the point is, you could get going with the other ferts and CO2 and shouldn't have much trouble.

If you have the goods for the CO2 mix, I say hook it up. Start taming the aquarium. In terms of dealing with the algae you have, it would be helpful to know what types you are dealing with on the plants and elsewhere. Look here: http://www.aquariumalgae.blogspot.com/ for help on IDing the stuff. Different algae has different treatment and removal processes...

With your new HC, HM, and MU... they will all want lots of strong light, so make sure your other long stems don't shade them too much.

HTH

 

[Satsumas]

I did reduce the lighting to about 6-8 hours a day and it's been like that for about a week now.
Eventually i plan on going pressurized but if i can keep consistant CO2 levels above 30ppm it then i might stick with DIY until i can easily afford to go pressurized.

I should recieve my order of plants & ferts (minus the mono potassium phosphate) tommorow so i still wont have everything i need but almost!

I'll go and make up a mixture now!

Dan - That's good to hear, so introducing the potassium sulphate slightly later on shouldnt be a problem then.

I have green slimy algae that seems to stick to the eco complete.
You can pick it up and it doesn't break, it stays consistant in little sheets.
I looked at the different types of algae and i'm 99% certain that it is BGA!
I understand that this isn't stricly and algae but more of a cyanobacteria and is harmfull to fish. I do plan on getting some oto's and maybe some small algae eating shrimp next week so if they eat this then there doomed aren't they?

In the end i only ordered HC and Bacopa C but i'll space everything out well. The Elodea i have grow like crazy!

 

[Swank]

You may be confusing SAE's with CAE's?...that is Siamese Algae Eaters with Chinese Algae Eaters. From what I've read, the Chinese are known to be picky about the type of algae, and when they get older, they stop eating the algae altogether, preferring fish food. And they get mean.

The SAE's are supposed to be much better in general about eating different kinds of algae, and IME, have not grown that large, and have always been well behaved. And they love to eat algae. You are correct that they are known to prefer groups, though.

Most LFS IME do not know the difference between SAE's, CAE's, Flying Foxes, etc. For some of them the differences in appearance may be subtle, but their behavior can be much different.

Its good to read the following article on Algae Eating Cyprinids, and if necessary, bring it in to show the LFS folks...

http://www.thekrib.com/Fish/Algae-Eaters/

 

[dapellegrini]

CAE's and Flying Fox are all but worthless, but SAE's will also display many of the same issues as they get older. I have three that are full grown (the largest fish in the tank) and they eat mostly bloodworms and brine shrimp. They will also eat fine-leaved delicate plants like R. Wallichii and Mayaca (devastated mine). They are fairly aggressive with each other when it is feeding time... perhaps I just got a bad lot of them, but from what I have read, mine are behaving like the typical full-grown SAE does... If I had it to do over again, I am not sure I would have these guys...

Younger ones are voracious algae eaters though.

 

[Satsumas]

SAE's, CAE's and Flying Foxes all seem to be a bit troublesome IMO. I think i'll stay well clear, there nice looking fish though and i was interested at one point, if only they stayed loyal to algae!

I recieved my order today! Very pleased with everything, well packaged and arrived when expected.
There is now a slight hitch in the fact that i still dont have any CO2 in the tank and have the plants ready to go in. I dont want to put the plants in without any CO2 because i think they'll get covered in algae especially the HC which looks like a nightmare to plant! So if it gets covered in algae then i'll have to re-plant as it'll get un-rooted.

What should i do next?

TIA

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I think the BN will be a good addition to the tank as well. Another algae eating fish to think about, and they do awsome, is American Flagfish. I have 4 of them in my 29G, and they are keeping my crypts pretty much algae free. And they eat a few different types of algae as well. 2 would do well in a 20G long.

Go ahead and plant. It can go a few days without CO2 without any problems, and if you can, lower the lighting a little til you get the CO2 going. As for the HC, you are in for the experience of a lifetime, lol. What you do is spread it out thinly by planting only small clumps of 2 or 3 plantlets with a fine pair of tweezers by pulling the roots into the substrate and gently pulling the tweezers out.. You'll never be able to do a good job with your fingers, lol. Or if you are really dedicated, plant as single plantlets, lol. I did mine the last time in small clumps of 3-4 plantlets, and it's doing really good.

 

[Satsumas]

I think the flag fish might clash with the bolivians i'm planning to get. Not in terms of aggression but as a similar fish in terms of size, looks and the area of the tank that they spend most time in. Also the Bolivians are my 'pair' if you like and i suppose a 'centerpiece' fish aswell.

I can't lower the lighting but only alter the duration.

Yes i've read up on planting HC and thought it would be challenging to say the least.
When i recieved the plant however that was when i fully realised just how challenging it will be! I think i'll be planting in groups of 3-4 lol.