My Newb Tank, Help wanted!

[terathan33]

Hi everyone, First off Id like to thank everyone here for all the useful info I have found on this site. I have been reading these forums for sometime but this is my first post. I am a complete newb to aquariums.


I recently purchased a tank off ebay. It is shaped like half an octagon, and holds about 36 gallons of water.
Onto my questions. I started to fishless cycle the tank today, the only ammonia I could find was PathMark brand clear ammonia. I googled a bit and found that people have had success with this brand. The only thing that makes me uneasy is thats it's ingingredient label includes(amoammoniumdroxide solution, clarifying agen, softwater). I have read on some sites that when water gets murky, or foggy people have used clarifying agent. The first question I have, do you think it is safe to use ammonia with clarifying agent?. I don't want to use too much of this ammonia so so I put in about 2 cap fulls into my filled tank, and added a few bits of chopped up shrimp from the local store. Second question I have is, does the fact that my tank was previously used help with the cycling process? It's been out of use i suspect a few months.

Umm now onto my water test results using red sea fresh lab testing equipment.
• Chlorine concentration: 5 ppm, currently being lowered using jungle start right.
• GH– General Hardness. It just said my water is soft, no numeric mmeasurements
• KH – Carbohydrate Hardness – It said my water is soft, no numeric mmeasurements
• PH – 7.4
• Iron – 0 ppm
• Will do the nitrite/ammonia testing in a day or so.

What type of fish/plants would be good for my water?


Anyway heres my tank. Measurements are 36'W, 12'L, 21'H

I am also interested in getting some live plants as well as fish I am about to order.
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_sku=13151
I don't think its an overkill, plant geek said for medium light I should shoot for 2wpg. This light seems good but kinda expensive. My tank is 21 inches high so maybe I want a brighter light?. I would like low light to medium light plants depending on what my local store carries.

For substrate I've seen alot of people praise Carib Sea Eco-Complete. So i plan on 1 bag of that. I've never bought substrate so should I assume 1 bag will be enough?
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_sku=17855

finally i know adding fish will probably come weeks from now but what live things can I start adding to the tank such as plants or snails.

 

[toddnbecka]

If the bottle of ammonia becomes foamy at the top when shaken, don't use it.
Used tanks don't cylce any faster than new tanks.
A 55 watt light will be good for low-med requirements. Java fern, java moss, crypts, hygro (A few off the top of the list) will be fine with that.
1 bag of eco-complete won't give you much depth of substrate; get 2 bags. It also contains the bacteria needed for cycling, so it will speed up the process.
Some MTS would be good to stir the substrate, preventing anaerobic pockets from forming. Plants aren't affected by cycling like fish, they can be added after the substrate is in.
The filter in the pic is too small for that size tank.
I doubt the teat kit is giving accurate readings, distilled water is the only thing likely to have no GH or KH, and the pH of distilled water is 7.0. Higher pH usually means somewhat hard, alkaline water.

 

[JustOneMore20]

You should dechlorinate the water before adding it to the tank. Are you starting the cycle before adding substrate? Why not just wait until you get the Eco in? If you are using pure ammonia (that doesn't foam) you don't need the shrimp. That's just another way of fishless cycling (rotting shrimp provides ammonia source). Its a little messy too and probably not great to look at for a few weeks.

I would find a higher watt light, if it was me. 1.5 watts per gallon (what that 55w fixture will give you), is low light. I would go for around 2-2.5wpg for medium light. That would allow you to grow alot of stem plants.

If it was me, this is what I'd do:
Drain the tank. Order a light fixture. Order Eco. Order plants. Put Eco in the tank, fill with water, and plant plants (when they arrive). Then you can start fishless cycling with ammonia if it checks out. The plants and Eco-Complete will help speed up the cycle. A planted tank usually cycles faster, so I would plant the tank before starting the cycling. But thats just me.

I'm a little confused at why you are cycling without a substrate. The substrate is probably the most important place the good bacteria grows. Maybe I didn't understand or something....

Here is a link to a substrate calculator: http://www.plantedtank.net/substratecalculator.html

I see that the tank is half-octagon shaped, but you can still plug in the length and width to give you a good idea of how much you will need. Usually for a planted tank you want 2-4 inches of substrate. If you plan on having some swords, you want 4 inches. Most people slope the substrate from front to back..having about 2 inches in the front and up to 4 in the back.
Whatever the estimate is, you can take away a bag (20 lbs) if you want...because the tank is oddly shaped.

Aquarium plants in the US is selling Eco-Complete and has free shipping. I think they still have it. That's a great deal considering heavy item shipping at Big Al's is about $9 more a bag.

 

[terathan33]

:>

OK cool, thanks for the info. I did alot of reading but it seems like I missed alot of key points aswell. I did the amonia shake test and it doesn't foam. My reason for using both shrip and amonia is, I didn't want to use too much amonia becuase of the extra chemical and a big rotting shrimp in my tank wasn't what i wanted so i figured I'd use a cominbation of both.
I acctually found that I live right next what seems to be one of the best local aquarium stores in the state. So tomorrow Im going to try to get a

3 bags of substrate.
5-8 Plants.
70 Watt Light.
Python
A better hardess tester? is it worth getting one?



Oh about my filter its an AquaClear, I read some posts that recommeneded them. It says on the label thats it made for 20-50 gallon Aquariums. My tank is 36 gallons. Should I buy another filter?
This is my first tank so i really dont know what Im doing.

Thanks for the help.

 

[toddnbecka]

Aquaclear's are good filters, I use them on most of my tanks. Just rinse out the sponge block when you do a partial water change, it will last for years. I use 2 sponges in mine, for extra bio-capacity. How many GPH does it pump? I have a 38 gallon tank, heavily loaded with growing fish, and use an AC hob filter that pumps 300GPH, along with a powerhead, and an air pump/4"bubble stone. The airstone is there to prevent film from forming on the water surface, but I don't have live plants in the tank, and too many fish.
Generally, you want to turn over the tank volume at least 5 times/hour. After you add substrate, you'll have less water volume, so figure around 30 gallons of water total.
If your lfs will test your water for you, (most do it free), you probably don't need to buy a better hardness test kit. Ammonia/nitrite/nitrate tests are another matter, it's best to have them on hand, particularly when starting a new tank.
If you know someone who has an established tank, running the filter on it for 1-2 weeks will seed the new filter with bacteria, and cut down cycling time considerably. If you do that, and use the eco-complete, you may be good to go with stocking fish, but start with some inexpensive, hardy fish to be sure.
Do you have a hood for the tank?

 

[terathan33]

My filter has a max flow of 200 gph. I'll get my water tested at the LFS today, and try to have better hardness info. I don't know anyone with an established tank atm. Also the hood for my tank consists of two pieces of glass that fit on the top but leave an open space of about 1 inch.

 

[JustOneMore20]

I think the filter will be fine. It may be a little less than you need, but it will work. Aquaclears are great filters. I have them on my 3 tanks. They are very easy to maintain.

I wouldn't bother with the hardness tester, unless you were interested in CO2. Usually you check for carbonate hardness when using CO2. General fish keeping doesn't rely on hardness. Most fish can adapt to any hardness.

The Eco and plants will keep the ammonia level down, so if you have any hardy fish in mind to keep, you could go ahead and add them. Any thoughts on what fish you want to keep in the tank?

The more plants you have the faster it will cycle IME. I planted my 55g tank moderately when I set it up and added 8 tetras. I never registered ammonia or nitrite and got nitrAtes after a couple weeks. Then I started stocking slowly (adding a few fish a week) until I had everything I wanted. Plants really help, so if you know what kinds you are getting and they are a good price, get alot.
Some plants to look for are Wisteria, Water Sprite, Bacopa, Anacharis, and Rotala rotundifolia. Those are what I had in my tank. They are fast growing stem plants that will suck up the ammonia and nitrites to make the cycle faster!

BTW, pythons are great! I love mine!

 

[toddnbecka]

KH (carbonate hardness) is more critical than GH (general hardness); KH determines how much pH buffering capacity the water has. Biological activity will lower the pH over time if there's little/no KH, making the water acidic. Some species of fish react badly to acidic water, which is why water changes are necesary, even if the plants absorb the nitrates produced. There are also other chemicals/compounds produced that need to be removed with water changes. About 10 gallons/week should be sufficient.

 

[terathan33]

As advised I dumped my tank water, got plants, a new light and a carbon thingy, dechlorianted water and stuff. Now i get fish?

 

[toddnbecka]

Start with a few hardy fish, like 4-5 zebra danio's or Australian rainbows, and monitor the ammonia cycle for 7-10 days to make sure it's established.

 

[joannde]

No fish yet you have to make sure the tank is cycled. For me it was the hardest part of the hobby - I have NO patience LOL - fishless cycling takes awhile but there are many benefits to it. When you cycle the tank the idea is to build up ammonia levels to replicate the bioload of a full tankful of fish. Then the first batch of "good bacteria" will grow and muliply and convert the ammonia to nitrites (with an I). You then need to wait for the second batch of bateria to grow to convert the nitrites to nitrates (with an A). With a heavily planted tank you may not see the same sort of "spikes" in ammonia and nitrites but your tank isn't heavily planted yet, so you should see them both increasing.
Here's an excellent article on cycling (it says its for SW, but it's the same for FW).
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/article_view.php?faq=2&fldAuto=15

BTW, I used a shrimp to cycle my tank. I wasn't sure of my bottled ammonia (it looked like it foamed a little) and figured I'd rather have a smelly icky looking rotting shrimp then take the chance on poisoning my tank. Your ammonia is ok since it didn't foam. Yes, it smelled, but only when I stuck my nose right over the tank .... it really was no big deal, so if you want to use shrimp then go for it. It also eliminates the need to add daily doses of ammonia.

 

[terathan33]

Update. Well my cycle finally finished. and my plants are doing awesome. I realize now that when I bought some of them they were in really bad shape. Now all of them are greener and starting to sprout roots and stems. One problem I noticed I have a snail problem. I saw 8 of them today.
Will a clown pleco eat snails? :<
I have a 36 gal tank but didnt want any snail eaters as I want to get apple snails. I read that clown or zebra loaches are good snail eaters. What can I do to rid myself of the snail problem? :<

 

[toddnbecka]

You could simply use copper sulfate, aka Had-a-Snail, before you stock fish. It won't harm fish, but it would be easier to deal with the snails first. MTS are actually useful in a planted tank. They burrow through the substrate, eating leftover food and dead/decaying plant material, keeping anaerobic pockets from forming. Ramshorn snails will also eat dead plant material, but not the healthy leaves (unless they're Columbian ramshorns). Pond snails are a pest, best gotten rid of.

 

[noncentric]

If you plan on ever getting shrimp for that tank, then avoid any copper products - as they can poison shrimp long after the copper is removed from the water column. I think the copper precipitates and then leeches out in the future, or something like that.

I've also read that some tanks have had plant die-offs after using copper products to kill snails.

The safest thing to do is manual removal of the snails, especially if you don't have fish yet. Most snail species depend on extra food (from leftover fish food) to reproduce, so you probably won't have any baby snails to deal with - just get those adults out of there. You can either pick them off one-by-one, which is usually easier to do in the morning (as they usually come out in the dark). Or you can bait them with an algae wafer, zucchini, or green leaf lettuce - set it in the tank and then it should be covered with the snails in the morning.

Good luck!

 

[toddnbecka]

I have a 10 gallon tank, heavily planted, with cherry shrimp. I moved out the shrimp and most of the snails, then dosed it with Had-a-Snail to kill a hydra infestation. I drained the water out, flushed with fresh, dechlorinated water, drained and refilled. Everything has been fine, the only death after refilling the tank was a large apple snail, about a week later. It was larger/older than the other apple snail that died for unknown reasons several weeks before, so I doubt it was from the copper treatment.

 

[terathan33]

Well I got two clown loaches today, hopefully they won't grow too big. One of them ran under my driftwood and kicked my pleco out of his home LOL. After word he started eating the algea disc I got for my pleco. Poor clown pleco is now homeless :<

 

[toddnbecka]

Clown loaches are schooling fish, keeping 1 or 2 tends to cause problems. Get 2 more, they'll all be better off, so will the rest of the fish-to-come.

 

[terathan33]

update on my fish thier all pretty much happy, my plants are gonna need to be trimmed. The pleco never comes out from under the driftwood if the lights are on. My clown loaches sleep upsidedown and sideways in a corner of the tank. They make pretend thier dead!