My Rams never live long

[Berylla]

I have two surviving Rams in my 45G tank and one of them is looking pretty bad. She's very dark and hiding a lot. I started with 6, 4 of which died within a week. I've had these two for about 6 months. I did my usual 75% water change yesterday and just did another 75% today.

After 75% water change:

ammonia=0
PH=8
nitrite=0
nitrate=0

She's hiding in the Amazon sword so I can't take her photo right now. She's probably not going to make it.

 

[Berylla]

Here's a picture of here. She inverted herself in the amazon swords. You see the male looking out for her at the top left.

I wish he was more protective of her before she was sick. I think he has stressed her out by constantly chasing her.

 

[HUKIT]

Sure stress can play a major role in overall health but my experience with rams is genetics, they are simply overbred which leads to health issues dramatically shortening their life span. I'd try to find a local breeding through a aquarium or Cichlid club, with a strong bloodline and proper breeding techniques you'll have much better success.

 

[jhawk__]

German Blue rams also prefer a much lower ph!! Like around 5.5-6.5

 

[phishfriend]

First, how old was the tank when you got your rams? 6 rams in a 45g is way to many. I was able to keep 3 pairs in a 40 for three months but the only reasons they didn't kill each other was because the tank scape kept each pair out of line of sight of each other and it was three mated pairs. Had it been six rams of mixed sex with no pairs. It would have been a royal rumble. It sounds like that was the problem you had. What is the other stock in the tank? What temp do you have the tank at? The one remaining healthy ram you have is what sex?

 

[Berylla]

Phish - My tank is 3 years old, with three 6"+ discus, 20 black tetras, 4 cores, and 3 bushynoise plecos. I change my water 75% a day. The temp is 80 degrees. The rams died within a week, so I don't think the immediate problem was my tank, although I have to admit, once they grew to the 2", they would be killing each other. I don't think I'm overstocked right now since I change my water every day, clean my filters out every week. I will test my water again tomorrow morning to see if the nitrates increase.

Regrading PH, I realize that it's high, but I don't mess with PH other than putting peat granules in my filter. My discus are fine with it. I've read here and other places that Rams can survive well in high PH water. But I have no luck with them. Very sad.

I'm not going to QT the ram since the stress will kill it for sure. Just going to keep up with the daily water changes.

 

[phishfriend]

Yeah, the Low ph requirement for rams really pertains only to wild caught. 99.5% of the rams you buy in stores in the U.S. Where breed in the U.S in ph ranges of 6.8 to 7.4. Plus any tank that has healthy discus living in it is perfect for rams. Now that you told me about your tank. I think you could have just gotten a group that was in trouble before you got them. You do have a busy tank! But sounds like you have the maintenance dialed in to sustain it.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Im sorry you are having such trouble with your rams. Mine do great and I have a fairly high ph at 8.0.......but I got them from a local guy who breeds them, so they are tank bred in a high ph, not wild caught.

Now if only I could figure out how to cure these darn rainbows . Lol

 

[Berylla]

Kimla - haven't heard from you for a while. My female is still ALIVE. Not sure for how long though. She's still sitting in the Amazon swords.

How are the rainbows and your other fish? Could you do an update?

 

[Florio]

If i recall correctly you are not supposed to do more that 50% water changes.

Very stressful for fishy's.

 

[Berylla]

Florio - water changing can be very stressful to fish, but my system is permanently set up for these constant water changes. It's required for discus fish-keeping. Rams may not tolerate it.

My discus love it, my tetras tolerate it, and the other fish act quite normally. The Rams - well, they have never done well in my tanks. I try every once in a while just because I love their cheeky personality and they are very beautiful.

Many Hats of Me: Aquarium Water Change System

 

[Florio]

Florio - water changing can be very stressful to fish, but my system is permanently set up for these constant water changes. It's required for discus fish-keeping. Rams may not tolerate it.

My discus love it, my tetras tolerate it, and the other fish act quite normally. The Rams - well, they have never done well in my tanks. I try every once in a while just because I love their cheeky personality and they are very beautiful.

Many Hats of Me: Aquarium Water Change System

Well if your having success with it then I wouldn't change it.

Since you have discus I guess you would have pretty soft water so yeah I would probably agree with the people above, you got sold a bad string of rams.

Did you get the 2 survivors from some one else than the others?

 

[Berylla]

This AM - she's still alive sitting in the Amazon sword.

 

[PockX]

Rams usually only live around 3 years anyway and are very sensitive to bad water. Are males chasing her at all? I had a male doing that till my female cowarded in every corner.

 

[Berylla]

Rams usually only live around 3 years anyway and are very sensitive to bad water. Are males chasing her at all? I had a male doing that till my female cowarded in every corner.

Wow, three years. I wish they would last one year. My male chases my the little female constantly. I predicted this would happen. It's just too stressful getting chased every second.

Florio - my water is actually hard, but it goes through a water softener so it's still hard because of the slight elevations of salt (my water doesn't taste salty at all).

Discus keepers sometimes change out their water 200% a day for a year. This maximizes growth and health in young discus. I'm doing 75% a day until the little ram either passes away or gets better. Then I'll go back to 75% every other day. My discus are almost adult. When I see that they are growing no longer, I will limit the feedings once every two days, and change the water every 3 days.

 

[Berylla]

The surviving two rams are from the same bunch. I bought the less than an inch and now they are almost 2"

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Hey Berylla,
My rainbows are still about the same. Doing daily 75%pwcs with salt, no meds. No real improvement, but no worse either. I am starting to think a lot of waht I am seeing may just be some scar tissue, but who knows. Still eating well, color is still decent. I am feeding only frozen foods (bloodworms, brine shrimp and deshelled peas) for the time being. I ordered some methylene blue, it should be here tomorrow..but I am not sure I want to stress them out with more treatments. I am kind of at a loss as to what to do next. I dont feel that I need to euthanize them, as they really seem comfortable for now, but I dont want them to suffer either.
I will post some more pics of them this evening.

On a good note, my main tank seems fine. Had a scare, but I think it was just an injury on a guppie that didnt end well. Everyone else is great. I upped my water changes to twice a week (50%) for the next couple weeks and also adding salt for a couple more weeks. Params are all good and fish seem happy as always.

 

[Florio]

Wow, three years. I wish they would last one year. My male chases my the little female constantly. I predicted this would happen. It's just too stressful getting chased every second.

Florio - my water is actually hard, but it goes through a water softener so it's still hard because of the slight elevations of salt (my water doesn't taste salty at all).

Discus keepers sometimes change out their water 200% a day for a year. This maximizes growth and health in young discus. I'm doing 75% a day until the little ram either passes away or gets better. Then I'll go back to 75% every other day. My discus are almost adult. When I see that they are growing no longer, I will limit the feedings once every two days, and change the water every 3 days.

Wow that's rough I would never do that many water changes.

Any how the salt hardness you have going on may be your problem.

I think if you were doing RO/DI you could get away with less water changes and also keep your rams happy.

 

[Berylla]

Wow that's rough I would never do that many water changes.

Any how the salt hardness you have going on may be your problem.

I think if you were doing RO/DI you could get away with less water changes and also keep your rams happy.

You may be right. I will do that when the discus are adult which should be by the end of this year (they will be just over 2 years old then). Or maybe start a Ram only tank.

 

[Berylla]

Hey Berylla,
My rainbows are still about the same. Doing daily 75%pwcs with salt, no meds. No real improvement, but no worse either. I am starting to think a lot of waht I am seeing may just be some scar tissue, but who knows. Still eating well, color is still decent. I am feeding only frozen foods (bloodworms, brine shrimp and deshelled peas) for the time being. I ordered some methylene blue, it should be here tomorrow..but I am not sure I want to stress them out with more treatments. I am kind of at a loss as to what to do next. I dont feel that I need to euthanize them, as they really seem comfortable for now, but I dont want them to suffer either.
I will post some more pics of them this evening.

On a good note, my main tank seems fine. Had a scare, but I think it was just an injury on a guppie that didnt end well. Everyone else is great. I upped my water changes to twice a week (50%) for the next couple weeks and also adding salt for a couple more weeks. Params are all good and fish seem happy as always.

I'm glad your tank is doing better. That is such a relief. Regarding your rainbows, it looks like they are better since they would be gone by now if they had columnaris.

Meth blue is very gentle and it will help them heal. They are in a QT tank , right? Just need a sponge filter, heater, airstone. It will kill nitrifying bacteria so you will need to do a 75% water change daily. You don't need salt with this treatment. You could do a meth bath for a few days. Then I would do a water change to get rid of the blue and see if they have healed.

Caution: methylene blue stains EVERYTHING. If you accidentally drop some, you can use some diluted bleach, or a Mr. Clean Sponge:

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