New Aquarium Owner

[ccross]

My 4 year old daughter recently got a fish bowl and 2 gold fish (a Black Moor who is about 1.5 inches and a Fan Tail who was just over an inch). The people at Walmart told us that they would live happily in the 1 gallon bowl for years. They said just to fill the bowl with tap water when we got them home and float them for an hour before adding them. We did just as they said, as well as adding a 2lb bag of gravel and a small plastic plant. My mother in law decided that she'd buy another fish for my daughter and, at the advice of the walmart associate, purchased a chineese algea eater who is about 1.5 inches long. The following morning, after having all 3 in the bowl for about 12 hours, I noticed the algea eater was trying to suck to the smaller Fan Tail GF. I called Pet Depo and they told me it was nothing to worry about. About 4 hours later we found the Fan Tail floating. Best part was, Walmart wouldnt honor thier 3 day warranty on the fish because we had tossed the original bag that we brought them home in.

SO, i bought a .5 gallon beta tank, a small air pump and a bubble stone and moved the algea eater to that until I could find a bigger tank. Both the Moor and the algea eater (rightly named sh*thead because he killed my daughters favorite fish) seemed much happier.

My wife posted on facebook that we were looking for a 10 gallon aquarium to put some GF in. A friend of ours offered us a 20 gallon tank with a decent stand. I went straight to Pet Smart to get the stuff to set it up after picking it up from our friend. I bought a Tetra Whisper 20i filter system and a bottle of Jungle Start Right water conditioner. I also got plastic plants and 18 lbs of colored gravel. I asked the Pet Smart staff how many GF I could safely put in the tank and they told me the rule was 1 inch of fish per gallon of water. I then bought a Shubunkin that was about 3in long and a new Fan Tail that was just over an inch in lenght. I figured, given the size that they are known to grow to, the 3 should be fine in the 20 gallon tank of I didnt add any more.

I THEN asked the employee how I should set the tank up. They told me to fill the tank, add the correct amount of conditioner and then let it run for a few hours while the fish float in thier bag. I did just as they said and all 4 fish (I added the algea eater as well) seemed to be happy. The next morning the tank was very cloudy so I called Pet Smart and they said this was normal and the filter would take care of it. When it didnt clear up I looked online for answers and thats when i saw that the tank should have been cycled first. Do these people at Walmart, Pet Depo and Pet Smart know anything? I have been replacing 3 gallons of water every day with new conditioned water and it seems to be clearing up. What I am noticing now is that I am getting small spots of algae all over the inside of the tank.

Any help on how I can get this fixed correctly would be great. My daughters love thier fish and I am becoming addicted to them as well. Thinking about getting a 10 gallon tank for my office and some small tropical fish. But I want to know how to do things right first.

Thanks!

 

[bruinsbro1997]

to AA!

Okay, do not listen to the people at Petco, Petsmart, or any other chain store. It's very bad.

Return the goldfish and CAE (algae eater). CAE's get six inches long and eat other fish's slime coats, like for example goldfish. Goldfish are highly messy and will easily overload your bioload.

When you can check these two links out:

1. What to do before adding fish. The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling

2. Since you've got the fish already in the tank: I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?!

 

[ccross]

I cant take any of them back, my kids are too attached to them. The Algae eater was from Walmart and they wont let me return it without the bag it came home in and thats long gone. I just want to get this setup fixed correctly so we can enjoy them. Can 3 gold fish really be that much work in a 20 gallon tank once its established? i have family that have had more than 5 goldfish in a 10 gallon tank for years and years.

 

[bruinsbro1997]

Yes it is that much work. Goldfish get HUGE, and can be very messy. They have a huge waste load and if the tank is not cycled there is no way for it to go away. Here is why: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/goldfish-a-psa-153329.html

I would suggest trying to find a new home for them if possible.

 

[ccross]

I guess I will go elsewhere for answers. Thanks anyway.

 

[melosu58]

Welcome aboard. We are glad you found us here at AA.

Moving this to our FW general discussion. You`ll get more answers there. This is just the welcome wagon.

 

[ccross]

Welcome aboard. We are glad you found us here at AA.

Moving this to our FW general discussion. You`ll get more answers there. This is just the welcome wagon.

Thanks!

I just wanna know how to properly set this tank up so my fish will be happy. My daughters are attached to the 3 GF we have, they have named them and watch them swim on and off all day. I couldnt trade them for other fish now if I wanted to

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks!

I just wanna know how to properly set this tank up so my fish will be happy. My daughters are attached to the 3 GF we have, they have named them and watch them swim on and off all day. I couldnt trade them for other fish now if I wanted to

Hi and welcome! Wow you have a lot going on there! Unfortunately most of us learn the hard about some employees at large chain pet stores (always double-check what they tell you first)!

The general rule of thumb for goldfish is 20 gals for the first fish and 10 gals for each additional. You have three goldies, so you would need a 40 gal tank at least.

However since you have a 20 gal and no way of rehoming the fish, you'll have to do a fish-in cycle. It's tough but it can be done. With 3 goldies in a 20 gal though you'll be doing a lot of water changes for the next 2-3 months, conceivably.

1) This guide will help: I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?!

2) Get a good quality liquid test kit, the API Master Liquid kit is best. Don't get the strips (they are inaccurate) and don't take the water to a pet store to be tested (more than likely they'll tell you it's "fine" when it probably isn't).

3) Get a good dechlorinator; Prime is best, b/c it not only dechlorinates the water but also temporarily detoxifies ammonia. Most pet stores should have this.

4). I think you said you have a filter for a 20 gal tank? I would either add a second filter or get a larger one. You'll need it. Also do NOT replace the filter media, regardless of what the packaging says. All of your beneficial bacteria you'll be growing will be on those filters and you'll erase any progress you've made with cycling if you replace it.

5). Every day test the water with your test kit. Any time ammonia or/and nitrite are over 0.25, do a water change to get them down as low as possible. You may be doing large water changes, even more than once per day, but it's vital to keep them alive and healthy.

6) As for the algae eater, you'll probably need to supplement his diet since there probably isn't enough algae and things in the tank yet for him to eat. I think they can eat algae wafers. Here's some info on their care. Also the CAEs can be aggressive, so it might end up hurting or killing your goldies.

edited to add: 7) obtain a larger tank for them as soon as you can. Even if you cycle the 20 gal with them now and get move them over to a 40 gal in a few months, you could just move everything over and the tank would stay cycled.

Good luck!

 

[jeffp]

the general rule for goldfish is 20 gallons for the first one and 10 gallons for each additional goldfish, so going by the rule you'd need a 40+ gallon tank. goldfish get a lot bigger than most people realize, and create tons of waste, which is why they need so much tank.

while they may live in small tanks, that doesn't make for a happy or healthy fish. imagine having to live and grow in a room that was 10x10 with 3 other people and no toilet and a person comes and cleans away all your waste twice a month.

 

[bruinsbro1997]

Knew you'd come along librarygirl! Now all we need is eco...

BTW I'm sorry if I came off a little bit mean in my earlier posts! It's not how I intended to sound as some stuck-up know it all. I'm trying my best to help as many people as I can. It's true, you can keep goldfish in any tank size (so long as it's reasonable) as long as you have excellent filtration. Have you tried AquaClear or MarineLand? They turn over lots of water and will easily keep up with your goldie's loads. If you could find a thirty gallon you'd have ten gallons per fish, which should suffice for a bit.

 

[ccross]

Thanks for the replies and information. I have access to a couple of 10G tanks. I just need to clean them and buy filters, gravel and all the fixings. If I were to move the GF each to a 10G, do you think that would be sufficient if they were the only fish in the tank? This way I can recondition the 20G for some smaller tropical fish.

 

[librarygirl]

Thanks for the replies and information. I have access to a couple of 10G tanks. I just need to clean them and buy filters, gravel and all the fixings. If I were to move the GF each to a 10G, do you think that would be sufficient if they were the only fish in the tank? This way I can recondition the 20G for some smaller tropical fish.

I wouldn't think that would be better, but let someone else chime in. Remember the first goldie needs 20 gals and each additional needs 10. For 3 in the same tank you'd need 40 gals. For one you'd still need the 20. The 10 gals for the others are too small IMO. They can grow rather large too and they can be stunted if put in tanks too small for them, which is painful for the fish in the longrun. Can you maybe sell the 20 and the 10 gals and use the money for a larger tank? If nothing else the goldies should stay in the 20 (short-term only though) and the 10's should be used for small tropical fish, a small school of nano fish or a betta. 10 gal tanks are still pretty small since most schooling fish require a lot of room to swim.

Plus I think maybe you should focus on getting the goldie tank cycled and obtaining a proper home for them before taking on anything else.

 

[ccross]

I wouldn't think that would be better, but let someone else chime in. Remember the first goldie needs 20 gals and each additional needs 10. For 3 in the same tank you'd need 40 gals. For one you'd still need the 20. The 10 gals for the others are too small IMO. They can grow rather large too and they can be stunted if put in tanks too small for them, which is painful for the fish in the longrun. Can you maybe sell the 20 and the 10 gals and use the money for a larger tank? If nothing else the goldies should stay in the 20 (short-term only though) and the 10's should be used for small tropical fish, a small school of nano fish or a betta. 10 gal tanks are still pretty small since most schooling fish require a lot of room to swim.

Plus I think maybe you should focus on getting the goldie tank cycled and obtaining a proper home for them before taking on anything else.

Wasnt planning on starting anything else anytime soon, just wondered of that would work. I dont have the tome to clean those 10G's anytime soon, nor buy the accessories I need.

Right now I just want to get this 20G fixed. Any idea what the water testing setup sells for? I seem to be spending more and more on this hobby

 

[bruinsbro1997]

A good water testing kit is API Freshwater Master Kit, which you can test your ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and pH. Although it's a little pricey-around 30$-it is very accurate.

 

[eco23]

Knew you'd come along librarygirl! Now all we need is eco...

You guys have it covered . The only thing I would mention is that I understand kids getting attached to fish and being upset if they had to be rehomed, but I have to bring up the point that situations like the CAE killing the Goldfish is much worse for them to witness. It really has to weighed whether it's worse for them to be a bit upset for a while now, but having a healthy aquarium in the future vs. keeping them happy for the moment...only for there to be heartbreak in the future.

You're welcome to make any decision you choose, but if you decide to keep the fish, make sure you follow the advice above to get the tank cycled without the fish suffering or your kids having to witness the bad aspects of an uncycled tank that is not being cared for. As Librarygirl said, make sure you've got a good test kit, a bottle of Prime, and lots of energy to do water changes...often times daily changes.

In my opinion though...there really shouldn't be debate about rehoming the CAE. If you do a bit of research on them you'll see they are not even remotely compatible...especially as they get older. Even if you upgrade the tank to a suitable size for the Goldfish...it's still not a fish you'll hear many hobbyists promote as suitable for most home aquaria.

 

[ccross]

A good water testing kit is API Freshwater Master Kit, which you can test your ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and pH. Although it's a little pricey-around 30$-it is very accurate.

Yeah, $30 is a bit pricey. I've been laid off from work since Feb so money is tight. Is there any less expensive alternatives that will work as well?

 

[bruinsbro1997]

Yeah, $30 is a bit pricey. I've been laid off from work since Feb so money is tight. Is there any less expensive alternatives that will work as well?

All LFS will test your water free of charge. Just make sure they are using a liquid test kit, and not strips. The only inconvenience to this is that if you have to test your water and there is no LFS availably open you don't know what the levels are in your tank.

 

[ccross]

You guys have it covered . The only thing I would mention is that I understand kids getting attached to fish and being upset if they had to be rehomed, but I have to bring up the point that situations like the CAE killing the Goldfish is much worse for them to witness. It really has to weighed whether it's worse for them to be a bit upset for a while now, but having a healthy aquarium in the future vs. keeping them happy for the moment...only for there to be heartbreak in the future.

You're welcome to make any decision you choose, but if you decide to keep the fish, make sure you follow the advice above to get the tank cycled without the fish suffering or your kids having to witness the bad aspects of an uncycled tank that is not being cared for. As Librarygirl said, make sure you've got a good test kit, a bottle of Prime, and lots of energy to do water changes...often times daily changes.

In my opinion though...there really shouldn't be debate about rehoming the CAE. If you do a bit of research on them you'll see they are not even remotely compatible...especially as they get older. Even if you upgrade the tank to a suitable size for the Goldfish...it's still not a fish you'll hear many hobbyists promote as suitable for most home aquaria.

Moving the CAE isnt an issue at all. The kids could care less about him, lol. TO be honest I am sick of him trying to jump out of the tank. Its the goldies that the kids (and me) are attached to. Will the 20G tank be sufficient for a few months until I can look into a larger tank or possibly another 20G to divide them into?

 

[bruinsbro1997]

Moving the CAE isnt an issue at all. The kids could care less about him, lol. TO be honest I am sick of him trying to jump out of the tank. Its the goldies that the kids (and me) are attached to. Will the 20G tank be sufficient for a few months until I can look into a larger tank or possibly another 20G to divide them into?

Yes. It should be fine for about four to six months. In the long run however, it's not possible.

 

[ccross]

All LFS will test your water free of charge. Just make sure they are using a liquid test kit, and not strips. The only inconvenience to this is that if you have to test your water and there is no LFS availably open you don't know what the levels are in your tank.

The only LOCAL pet stores are Walmart and Pet Depo. Walmart is a joke and Pet Depo has a single shelf of fish supplies and NO fish for sale at all. I might just have to scrounge up a few bucks and just buy the test kit