New at this planted thing!

[CheeseHead88]

Hey Guys I have been keeping fake plants for a couple years now, and now I am getting a bigger tank possibly a hundred gallon, and I want to go all out. I am really looking into plants and substrates because I want a ton of cory cats, first off though I need to know how the maintenance goes for a planted FW vs. a non planted FW tank? What are the chores involved? Thanks!

 

[neilanh]

For the most part, it's the same. Water Changes are more critical though, as the fresh water brings in trace elements that help your plants out.

If you're going all out, you'll also need really good lighting, fertilizers and CO2.

OUtside of that, the only other real chore is trimming your plants as they grow.

 

[CheeseHead88]

Lighting for one is a must, do you have any suggestions? I would like to keep my tank covered from outside particles should I put a top on it, how about glass tops, does that affect the rays of the lamps? What are good fertilizers to put in your planted tank? And is there a such thing as liquid CO2? Thanks Again!

 

[Purrbox]

I use glass tops on all my aquariums, while it does block some of the light (especially if you let them get overly dirty) I think the benefits from keeping the fish in and limiting evaporation are well worth it.

What ferts you need depends on how much light you put over the aquarium. Since you're talking CO2, I suspect this will be a high light setup. As a result you'll want a good trace supplement (CSM+B, Flourish "Comprehensive", or Tropica Plant Nutrition) along with Nitrate (KNO3), Phosphate (KH2PO4), and Potassium (K2SO4). Dry ferts are definately the most economical way to fertilizer your aquarium.

There is such a thing is liquid CO2, but you get it in a pressurized cylinder and it turns to gas as it's released from the cyclinder. Not quite what you were asking though was it? CO2 injection is actually providing carbon, and while there isn't a liquid CO2 that you dose by the ml there is Flourish Excel. You do have to be careful which plants you use it with as Anacharis, Vals, and Riccia are know to melt when they come in contact with Flourish Excel. It's a great option for smaller aquariums, but becomes very expensive in large aquariums.

Coralife and Current both make really good light fixtures. Once you figure out for sure which aquarium you're going to get, we can make recommendations for specific models.

As far as the aquarium goes, I'd recommend trying to get a breeder. These are shallower top to bottom and deeper front to back which makes them much easier to light and aquascape.

 

[CheeseHead88]

What are good sizes for a breeder tank as in 20 high, or 29 gallon? Is liquid CO2 better in these types of aquarium set-ups, if I wanted to keep anachris, ludwigia, water sprite, or java fern? Would these melt as well? Why does it melt? Thanks purr!

 

[SpeedEuphoria]

CO2 gas grows plants much faster than Excel(liquid CO2). Heres what an expert says this is compared to no carbon source:

2-5x(Excel) the growth rates vs 10-25X(CO2) the growth rate.Tom Barr

A breeder tank just has a wide footprint for its volume, like a 40gallon breeder is a popular tank b/c of this:
http://alysta.com/books/fishtank.htm


I just want to say, if you want to go planted there really is no middle of the road(its either CO2 or no CO2, maybe excel is middle road?). Its either High light/CO2/Ferts/Lots of trimming/changes happen fast, or Lower Light/Slower changes/(CO2 or Excel are optional) but small dosing of ferts weekly are recommended for medium lighting.

Either way patience is needed to see changes, but when your new its not easy. For example you need patience to wait for changes, then again things can get out of control fast(algae) so with experience you can know which avenue to pursue.

So I guess what I'm saying is that light is the driving force to plants, some things are required depending on the lighting. My recommendation is if you think you want to go high light but are a beginner, Get a fixture that will give high light but start with only using medium light(either turn off or take out a bulb or 2) while using the CO2 and ferts to get used to them), then when you get the hang of it, increase the ferts and lighting and hang on.

Oh and heres a great 100 gallon tank that uses CO2 and 1.6 watts per gallon lighting(T5)
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/41827-avalons-100g.html#post368227

 

[Purrbox]

if I wanted to keep anachris, ludwigia, water sprite, or java fern? Would these melt as well? Why does it melt? Thanks purr!

If you use Flourish Excel, the Anacharis probalby wouldn't make it, but the Ludwigia, Water Sprite, and Java Fern will enjoy it. I believe most of these are medium or low light plants, so you could easily do a medium light setup and skip the carbon supplementation all together.

 

[CheeseHead88]

Wow I didn't know plants melted, that blows! Wow I really liked anachris, hmm. . . I like camboba though, okay how about a 29 gallon planted, is that too small? Would Excel be better for that too for something like camboba, I really want a coral life light, I don't know if that's for highly lit plants, if so, could I buy one and keep it on for plants that need high lighting, and plants don't really need it, or is that crossing a fine line? Thanks guys!

 

[gheitman]

A 29 gallon tank is not too small for plants. I have 8 tanks between 30 gallons and 10 gallons in size and all are planted. I used to have a 5 gallon hex tank that was planted. As you can see by Purrbox's signature even smaller planted tanks are possible.

Which Coralife light fixture are you planning to get? I would recommend considering the Freshwater Aqualight T-5 Double Linear Strip as found at Oceanic Systems | Products | Lighting Fixtures. Big Al's has them on sale right now. The 30" fixture should do just fine providing medium light.

While you can use Flourish Excel on tanks as big as the one you want (I have done it myself), it will probably be more effective to use DIY fermented CO2. You may run into algae problems if you don't.

On a final note, the standard 20W fluorescent light fixture can do quite well with low light plants on a tank that size. I have a 29 gallon tank using a 20W plant bulb that is growing Anubias like crazy and was also good with African fern.

 

[CheeseHead88]

I wanted to keep a couple of plants with high light requirements, and I would like to have a high light fixture that could take care of that and everything below, as for CO2 I just feel more comfortable with the liquid, I feel like I will make a mistake with DIY, I just hope it's as efficient. What about substrate, what are good recommendations? I was considering flourish!

 

[gheitman]

If you follow that same link for Oceanic Systems you will see that they also have some good compact fluorescent fixtures. I am planning on putting one with a single 65W 6700K lamp on a 29 gallon tank and use fermented CO2. I am big believer in Flourish Excel (as well as the other Seachem fertilizers) and use it in all of my tanks. The thing is though that for a 29 gallon tank one 250ml bottle would last about three months. It does work but as was pointed out earlier gaseous CO2 injection is more effective. I currently use fermented CO2 on my 30 gallon tank and one of my 20 gallon long tanks.

I would also suggest using a canister filter for your tank. It doesn't clutter up a tank like power filters do and it usually gives you more options for filtering. I would combine that with an inline external tank heater like the one from Hydor to unclutter the inside of the tank even more.

As far as substrates go I have used Flourite, Onyx Sand, Eco-Complete, etc. and would recommend the last one I mentioned.

 

[CheeseHead88]

That's awesome, where is a good website I can find Eco-Complete or flourite, what CO2 systems do you guys recommend? Thanks!

 

[neilanh]

if you're going to order substrate online, I recommend F&S. They don't charge a heavy item shipping fee. For CO2, I use the Milwaukee MA957. Got it on ebay for about $80. Then, just find a CO2 tank (got mine from the local Robert's Oxygen) and you're almost all set.

 

[gheitman]

You can find Flourite or Eco-Complete at either www.drsfostersmith.com or www.bigalsonline.com (although they charge a heavy item shipping fee). As far as CO2 equipment goes you might want to check out www.greenleafaquariums.com. They have first-rate equipment to choose from although I haven't purchased from them myself. I would suggest you look at renting a CO2 tank instead of buying one outright. That way you can just exchange it for another when it is empty. I personally use a couple of the Hagen Plant Gro CO2 systems and use baking soda and bread yeast once the included packets run out.

 

[CheeseHead88]

Where can I rent a CO2 system again? Do you guys really recommend that over liquid fertilization or flourish excel? Is a discus a bad choice for a 29 gallon planted, I know they need a high temp,and I know they're another piece of work. Thanks!

 

[gheitman]

I didn't mean to say that you could rent the whole gaseous CO2 system (regulator, check valve, solenoid, etc.). Those you will have to purchase. The CO2 tank is something that you can typically rent from a welding supply store or elsewhere and save yourself the cost of the tank and the required inspections.

Buying a CO2 system for your very first planted tank can be an enormous investment in time and money. You could start off just using Flourish Excel to provide the carbon plants need and see if you are satisfied with the results.

Putting discus in a planted tank is something that I have always wanted to do. A 29 gallon tank may be a bit small though considering that they can get up to 8" in size. There was an article I remember reading in Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine that was about successfully keeping discus in a planted tank. I don't remember the particulars though.

 

[CheeseHead88]

Cool gheit! Do you perhaps know a good number of websites that could give me some reliable info on keeping discus, if you don't mind! If you don't, it's okay! Oh and I've been meaning to ask what do ya'll think of onyx sand my seachem, is it worth it in a planted tank, how about a non-planted FW tank! I would like corie cats and I am not sure if onyx sand would help with their barbels. Thanks!

 

[gheitman]

Here are a few links that you might find helpful:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/keeping_discus.php
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/breeding_discus.php
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/523.htm

Onyx Sand really isn't the best substrate for a discus tank because it raises the pH anywhere from 0.1 to 0.5 and discus do best when the pH is in the acid range of 5.0 to 7.0. I would recommend looking at the new Flourite Black Sand instead. It doesn't alter the pH at all and should be perfect for cories. Check out the following link when you get a chance.

Seachem Gravels

 

[CheeseHead88]

Thanks for the info gheit, so if I went with black sand by seachem, could I mix it with flourite? How about gravel as well, would you need to make layers, or is that bad? Is it better to make little patches of sand with the gravel or clay? or should you make one tank half sand and half gravel? Hope that makes sense! Thanks Again!

 

[Purrbox]

When using multiple substrates they will inevitably mix. With layered substrates, pulling/moving plants will pull up the stuff from below and the smaller particles will settle down while the larger particles work their way up. When using different substrates in different areas you have to separate them with some sort of barrier, but even then you can expect some mixing from moving plants and fish antics. If you hate the idea of them mixing, then it's best to use a single substrate.