Nitrogen cycle

[ShaunV]

Hello everyone. I am new to the saltwater world and I am having a little trouble understanding the nitrogen cycle. I started my tank on 3/5/2012 with live rock and live sand. I have been testing my water everyday and have found that I am always getting a reading of 0 for ammonia and nitrites. Over the last 3 days, my nitrates level has been rising and I am currently reading about 15ppm. I don't understand how my nitrates level can be rising when I have not seen any ammonia or nitrites. Is this even possible? It seems as though my tank would not cycle without ammonia and nitrites going up first. Am I missing something here? I do see life I the tank. I see amphipods, a couple of very tiny feather dusters that came in on my LR and, unfortunately, very small aiptasia, and what I think is small spaghetti worms. I have placed a peppermint shrimp in on 3/12/2012 to hopefully get rid of the aiptasia. Thanks in advance for any responses.

 

[Reeffanman]

What did you use as an ammonia source to cycle the tank?

 

[melosu58]

We have a good article about it in our SW articles section.

 

[ShaunV]

What did you use as an ammonia source to cycle the tank?

I used 30# LS and 22# of LR. I was told I would not need to add anything more than that, just to be patient.

 

[AquaRick]

You need to add a source of ammonia (pure ammonia, raw shrimp) to get your cycle going and to create enough BB to handle your bioload down the road. Like Mike mentioned, check out our SW articles.

This article on going with a fishless cycle is helpful too:
The (almost) Complete Guide and FAQ to Fishless Cycling

 

[ShaunV]

Thank you for the link to the article on the nitrogen cycle. It does explain a lot. However, it does not explain why I would have nitrates when I have not added, nor seen, ammonia or nitrites. My source water did not have nitrates either. Also, I now have a peppermint shrimp in the tank to rid my tank of small aiptasia. If I add ammonia to the tank, won't the kill the shrimp?

 

[EriksFish315]

Your shrimp could be your ammonia source? Also the live rock could have had die off.

 

[AquaRick]

You most likely has some form of dieoff from your liverock that slowly turned into nitrates.

Also, if you're not cycled i would return that peppermint shrimp to your LFS. It's only going to suffer during the cycling process.

If you have aiptasia now and are cycling, I would take out the rock and burn the aiptasia with a lighter. It's very effective. If your tank was already established and removing your rock was an issue, then you can squirt kalk paste or lemon juice into the aiptasia to kill it.

 

[ShaunV]

Thank you all for the responses. I have a feeling you Amy be right. A new LFS opened up in my town a couple of weeks ago and a few things I have read are very contradictory to what the store owner says. I was wondering about the die off in the live rock too. The owner stated that he kills all of his live rock, then brings it back to life. I will return the peppermint shrimp to the LFS. Should I ask to return the live rock? I know there is some life in the tank because I have seen amphipods and spaghetti worms. When I purchased the LR, some were out of the sumps of his big tanks, out of a bucket curing, and a little from his display tanks. Thanks again for all of the advice. Glad I found this forum,

 

[rdnelson99]

In my opinion, if you had true live rock you are seeing nitrates because you already have the bacteria required to convert ammonia to nitrite and nitrite to nitrate. What die off you have had and what waste the shrimp creates is what is giving you a nitrate reading. If the shrimp has been in there for more than a few days without dieing I would say you are cycled. If the shrimp were not in the tank I would recommend dosing a little pure ammonia just to check that you have cycled but with livestock in the tank that is a no go.

 

[ShaunV]

Ok. The shrimp was placed in the tank on 3/12/2012 at 11:00 am PST. On the morning of 3/13/2012, I saw an exoskeleton. The shrimp, patty, is Active and has already eaten some of the aiptasia. They are very small. So, i will try your suggestion first. I am in the process of setting up a 10 gallon quarantine tank. Do I need to let that cycle first before allowing the shrimp in there? The salinity, Ph and temp will all be the same and I will have a power filter on it.

 

[rdnelson99]

If you take a small amount of rock out of the display tank and put in your QT you will not need to cycle it. You can also use some water taken from the display tank to fill the QT which will result in almost identical parameters (temp may change a bit while transferring the water).

I put a bag of Matrix in my sump and leave there are all times. That way it is populated with bacteria. When I need a QT, I take that bag and put it in the back of a hang on the back filter that I put on the QT. When I am done with the QT the bag goes back in my sump to maintain the bacteria. One word of caution though, if you medicate the QT at all, don't put the matrix back in the sump. Toss it and buy some more.

 

[ShaunV]

If you take a small amount of rock out of the display tank and put in your QT you will not need to cycle it. You can also use some water taken from the display tank to fill the QT which will result in almost identical parameters (temp may change a bit while transferring the water).

I put a bag of Matrix in my sump and leave there are all times. That way it is populated with bacteria. When I need a QT, I take that bag and put it in the back of a hang on the back filter that I put on the QT. When I am done with the QT the bag goes back in my sump to maintain the bacteria. One word of caution though, if you medicate the QT at all, don't put the matrix back in the sump. Toss it and buy some more.

Ok. Thanks. I will place a LR in today. I discovered the heater doesn't shut off on my QT. I will be getting a new heater for it today. Also, I do not have a sump on my display tank. We will be getting a protein skimmer soon, but as of right now my only filtration is bio and a power head. I am also not 100% sure that my display tank has completed its cycle, so placing a rock from the display tank into QT may not do much. I will try it though. I would really like to have the QT up and ready. Thanks again.

 

[ShaunV]

Tank update.

I am in the process of getting my QT and water change water to heat and get balanced. So, my peppermint shrimp is still in the display tank. Current test readings

Temp 82
Salinity 1.025
Ph 8.1
Alkalinity 3.1 meq/l
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 20

The tank was started 3/5/12
Ammonia and nitrites have never risen. I have not done a water change to date.

To make sure my tank is cycled, I will be placing the shrimp into the QT, then I will add some ammonia to the display tank. After I am sure the tank is cycled, I will place the shrimp back into the DT.

Should I do a partial water change before I do the ammonia process?

 

[Reeffanman]

Just add the ammonia no need to change water that would just slow the cycle.. Just keep topped up to maintain salinity and when fully cycled do a 40-50% pwc.

 

[ShaunV]

Will do, thanks.

 

[rdnelson99]

Tank update.

I am in the process of getting my QT and water change water to heat and get balanced. So, my peppermint shrimp is still in the display tank. Current test readings

Temp 82
Salinity 1.025
Ph 8.1
Alkalinity 3.1 meq/l
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 20

The tank was started 3/5/12
Ammonia and nitrites have never risen. I have not done a water change to date.

To make sure my tank is cycled, I will be placing the shrimp into the QT, then I will add some ammonia to the display tank. After I am sure the tank is cycled, I will place the shrimp back into the DT.

Should I do a partial water change before I do the ammonia process?

If the shrimp is still alive, there is enough bennificial bacteria to process what it produces. Just keep a close eye on your QT while it is in there and if you see any ammonia or nitrite do a water change in the QT. When you dose the Display Tank, you need to be sure you are using PURE ammonia. Ace Hardware brand "Janitorial Strength" is pure. If you want to use a different brand make sure you shake the bottle and look for bubbles. If there are bubbles it isn't pure. Don't over dose the tank. Bring it to 4 ppm and then check AM, Trite and Trate 24 hours later. If you see no AM and/or Trite but Trate has risen, you are cycled and do the water changes mentioned above.

 

[ShaunV]

Thank you. My shrimp died some time late last night. =(. I tested the water this morning with all of the same results as yesterday. I purchased Blue Ribbon Clear Ammonia at True Value Hardware. I shook the product, no bubbles. I am unclear as to why the shrimp died unless there was not enough bacteria in the water to keep it alive or it could have run out of food. My LFS stated the shrimp would have enough food from my tank for weeks. I had small aiptasia which are now all gone and I saw some amphipods crawling around the rock. I do not see them anymore either. The shrimp was in the tank for 4 days. I am heading over to LFS with a water sample. I hope we can get this figured out. We don't want any casualties. We are animal activists and would hate to be the cause of death to any animal. Needless to say, losing our first inhabitant in 4 days is very discouraging.

 

[rdnelson99]

First of all, are you sure it died and didn't molt? Was there a body in the shell or just the shell? It is easy to mistake a molt for a dead shrimp. Fist time my fire shrimp did it I was sure it had died.

If you are going to pursue this hobby you need to accept that while you do everything to give the animals a good life, there will be some loses. If just goes with the territory. I would bet there is not one person on this or any other forum who could honestly tell you they have had no loses. Being responsible and caring for them to the best of our ability is all we can do.

If the shrimp did pass, I am sorry for the lose. It is always sad. However, if that is what happened, it gives you the opportunity to make sure the tank is fully cycled before adding any more livestock. Take your time and research. This is a very gratifying hobby if you are patient. If you get in a hurry, it becomes very difficult. As has been said time and again, "Only bad things happen quick".

 

[ShaunV]

Yes, the shrimp passed. The first morning it had molted and to me it was vey obviously an exoskeleton. This time however, it was no exoskeleton. Thank you for your sympathy. I know losses will happen and I know we will do our best to take care of the animals. We are trying to take everything really slowly. The shrimp was only placed in the tank to get rid of the aiptasia (which worked beautifully). I was actually planning on taking the shrimp to back to the LFS today while I finished getting the QT tank ready and to make sure the DT had cycled. I know this can be an extremely gratifying hobby. But I also know that there is a lot to learn and a ton of contradictory information out there. I am just glad there is a great forum to get advice from. Thanks again and I am sure I will have more questions.