Okay - A Plethora of Issues With My 60 Gallon Goldfish Tank Since Last Post...

[jlk]

I am actually interested to see if this product helps your cycle in any respect. Please keep us posted on everything!

 

[ArtesiaWells]

I am actually interested to see if this product helps your cycle in any respect. Please keep us posted on everything!

I will...

As for my questions regarding what to do at this moment in time, do you suggest continuing water changes to remove the Melafix, stopping salt and that's pretty much it? We did the 10 to 15% today; do I need to do any more changes today? How often now do I need to do them -- daily, weekly...and how much?

Definitely stop the Melafix and salt in your opinion, yes? I am not going to attempt the salt again anyway being that I completely dosed wrong, but I was just asking...

 

[jlk]

Your not going to like my answer & I know the water changes are difficult. My suggestion is to do 50% daily for atleast the next four days to remove the melafix. As long as the wounds look clean & are healing with no white fuzziness or tufts/hairs, your guys should be fine. If you do notice anything strange, let us know. While they are healing, I would try to manage 50% atleast 2x week thereafter. Once healed, this can go back to one big water change a week (atleast 50%, more would be better). Hope this helps!

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Oh boy...

But definitely stop the Melafix and no more salt, yes?

 

[jlk]

As I have said earlier, I really don't think the melafix is necessary here. We may add more salt at some point in the future if it's necessary. A good thing to have on hand is a small kitchen scale- Walmart. Has them for $4. My fish have injured themselves through various means where scales were ripped off down to flesh & blood & they healed with nothing special other than healthy water & good immune system. I really wouldn't be overly concerned unless an issue presents itself such as fungus or infection. Healthy water & keep a close eye on them.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Hello jlk (and everyone else that has been graciously assisting)...

Here's an update: On the 60 gallon, we did a 50% change yesterday, per jlk's recommendation, and that seemed to have made the water appear somewhat clearer and cleaner, however the goldfish in concern is still not eating and his behavior really hasn't improved. Further, now he is loitering around the bottom rear left of the tank, behind a "pirate cave" decoration and near the bottom of a corner tall plant, and this is normally where our fish go when they're about to "check out." This is absolutely not normal behavior pattern for this fish. The other fish that was attacked by the aggressive one we quarantined, the Red Cap Oranda, appears to be doing fine and her sore healing somewhat from what I can tell.

So the problem remains the Chocolate Fantail -- some additional notes on him ("Oscar"): Per what jlk told me to watch for, it seems he has developed a white "tuft"/pearl-like formation towards the center of the massive sore on his anal cavity, and this I dreadfully fear means a fatal infection of some kind. As I said, he won't eat, and when he tries, he spits the flakes back out as if he cannot get them down -- it's bizarre, but this is what we're witnessing. He won't swim all that much, just seemingly drifting in the current of the tank, and while his dorsal fin is up at times and healthy looking, he occasionally swims to the bottom left front of the tank and does a weird, quick "twitch" (not an Ich flash) on the glass, and swims away; he was never doing this prior to getting injured by the attacking new fish.

What can I do at this point? If it is an infection, from the white dot that appears to be at the heart of his red wound in back, what do I treat with? How much more time does he have? Do I continue with the water changes now? As I said we did a 50% yesterday; does another 50% have to be done today and the rest of the week? The water looks considerably, I'd say, better than before when the tank was loaded with Melafix...

As for the 10 gallon quarrantine tank we set up for the aggressive attacking Red Cap, that tank received a water change yesterday too, and I am continuing to add Seachem Stability for the fish-in cycle; we have a few more days of that treatment. The water is still cloudy from new tank syndrome, but the Red Cap appears to be doing okay, eating and swimming...

Thank you, all, for your help thus far -- I look forward to hearing back from jlk and anyone else that can assist at this point.

 

[jlk]

A white tuft of hairlike projections on the wound is indicative of fungus. Trying to treat the entire tank will be a bit difficult. It can be topically treated but this requires handling your fish (with your hands not a net). So, because this is not a possible option here, I would suggest getting some methylene blue & doing daily bathes to treat it. The directions for its use on pretty straight forward. Please use an open-mouthed pitcher/jug for moving the fish around rather than a net- its much less stressful & will prevent any further injuries. The dollar store carries them very inexpensively. Hope this helps!

 

[ArtesiaWells]

A white tuft of hairlike projections on the wound is indicative of fungus. Trying to treat the entire tank will be a bit difficult. It can be topically treated but this requires handling your fish (with your hands not a net). So, because this is not a possible option here, I would suggest getting some methylene blue & doing daily bathes to treat it. The directions for its use on pretty straight forward. Please use an open-mouthed pitcher/jug for moving the fish around rather than a net- its much less stressful & will prevent any further injuries. The dollar store carries them very inexpensively. Hope this helps!

Thanks for the prompt reply jlk...

Oh no...this is what I dreadfully feared...I truly don't want to medicate any further at this point, and you are suggesting a methylene blue medication? Isn't this the same stuff that's used to treat Ich? If so, I used this some time back for a false alarm symptom of what we thought was Ich, and it turned my entire tank, all the decor and all the glue on the glass completely blue. I couldn't get it out for months.

Is there any possible, remote way the regular water changes can help him...at all?

 

[jlk]

Some ich meds do contain methylene blue (combined with other meds) and, yes, it does stain. I am not suggesting you use it in the tank. Plain methylene blue (with no other ingredients) can be used in a bucket as a bath once a day seperate from your tank. Its very safe as a bath. Or, alternately, you can pick up the fish & just swab a little bit directly on the sore/fungus & skip the bath altogether. The Bio-bandage product I mentioned previously is a combo of meth blue & an antibiotic that you swab or just drip a few drops right on the sight of injury. It takes less than 10secs to do this. Hydrogen peroxide swabbed on the wound would work as well. The fungus needs to be addressed or it will spread & can eventually result in the demise of a fish. Water changes will help no matter what is going on but will need to be done in addition to some type of treatment.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

This is just not good news...

I think we're going to end up losing this fantail at any rate, but I'm hoping he pulls through...

Thanks everyone.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

jlk:

Do you really recommend going back to medicating this tank after all it has been though, and all the water changes we've done now? The Melafix, if we went back to using it, won't offer any cure whatsoever for this goldfish? Don't forget -- we stopped treatment only two days in, so perhaps he didn't get a chance to absorb the right amount of medication? Can I start using the Melafix again being that we already have the bottle?

Also -- when can I expect to begin seeing clear water in the 10 gallon I set up for the attacking fish? Is the cloudy water in this tank due to New Tank Syndrome?

 

[jlk]

If you want to use the melafix, go right ahead. The treatment I suggested is not for the tank but as bath seperate from the tank or as directly applied treatment.

The cloudiness in new tank is likely a combo of a bacterial bloom combined with the bacteria product. I have encountered numerous occasions where people had horrific amounts of cloudiness when they started using the bottled bacteria products. Make sure your testing his water daily & doing necessary water changes to keep toxins in check.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

If you want to use the melafix, go right ahead. The treatment I suggested is not for the tank but as bath seperate from the tank or as directly applied treatment.

I understand what you were saying with regard to the separate treatement with the melachite blue -- but with regard to the Melafix suggestion above, that's not too helpful to just say "go right ahead" (with all due respect and with absolutely no offense, honest)...that's why I specifically asked if I can/should continue using it, because I don't know if this (the Melafix) will cure or help what he is going through now (the wound in back is getting progressively and aggressively worse, with the sore/legion now turning a white "cotton like" formation, and his stool is transparent).

What do you recommend here? The Melafix or the Mechalite Blue?

The cloudiness in new tank is likely a combo of a bacterial bloom combined with the bacteria product. I have encountered numerous occasions where people had horrific amounts of cloudiness when they started using the bottled bacteria products. Make sure your testing his water daily & doing necessary water changes to keep toxins in check.

Makes sense; will this ever clear?

 

[jlk]

I don't think melafix 'fixes' anything other than ones desire to medicate. I don't believe it accomplishes anything that healthy water doesn't. If you believe in product, your more than welcome to give it a try. I know some swear by it but i am not one of those people. If you want to add med, try product such as Jungle fungus meds once melafix has been removed. It's mild antibiotic/anti fungal. Or, you can consider bathes or swabs with methylene blue. It's what your comfort level dictates.

On the small tank, some extra water changes without the stability should help clear it up.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

I don't think melafix 'fixes' anything other than ones desire to medicate. I don't believe it accomplishes anything that healthy water doesn't. If you believe in product, your more than welcome to give it a try. I know some swear by it but i am not one of those people. If you want to add med, try product such as Jungle fungus meds once melafix has been removed. It's mild antibiotic/anti fungal. Or, you can consider bathes or swabs with methylene blue. It's what your comfort level dictates.

What makes the Jungle fungus meds any different, from a "just a desire to medicate" standpoint, than the Melafix?

Here's an update on this tank: The wife was comfortable with giving another dose of the Melafix last night due to the fact that the fantail in question seemed to be in advanced discomfort. We dosed about half of what the bottle suggests (around three teaspoons instead of six for our size tank), just to give him some relief, hopefully. This morning, he is really looking no different, still not eating (while the original Red Cap and Black Moor do eat) and the wound in his rear now being almost completely consumed by the white area.

What can I do at this point to save him? He's obviously not going to make it; should I switch to the Jungle meds immediately or should I drain the water again and change it to get some clean, unmedicated water in there for him?

On the small tank, some extra water changes without the stability should help clear it up.

Okay; indeed, now that I'm thinking about it, the cloudy water did start when the Stability went in...so it's probably a "reaction" to the bacteria of the stuff...

 

[jlk]

I am truly sorry your having such problems. In my opinion, the difference between a 'desire to medicate' using melafix (which is generally ineffective for actual issues beyond just an overall tonic effect) and 'medicating' is the use of real meds that will actually treat an issue. I can only make suggestions here- its your discretion on whether you want to pursue the avenues or not.

Is the ph of your tap water fairly similar to your tank water or is there a big difference?

 

[ArtesiaWells]

I am truly sorry your having such problems. In my opinion, the difference between a 'desire to medicate' using melafix (which is generally ineffective for actual issues beyond just an overall tonic effect) and 'medicating' is the use of real meds that will actually treat an issue. I can only make suggestions here- its your discretion on whether you want to pursue the avenues or not.

I understand; at this point, we don't know what to do -- I am considering continuing the Melafix, switching to another med per your suggestion (Jungle, etc.), doing another 50% water change, adding salt back in for relief (dissolved in the water that is to go back in after the change) or just giving up and waiting to see if he gets any better (not likely because he cannot keep food down). When I say "considering" those actions, I mean one of them, not all; this white area on his behind is getting massive now and I cannot get any concrete answers as to what this is or what to do...if you look online, you get so many wildly varying replies to people describing this symptom, and suggestions to use varying medications I have never heard of before. And then, some say leave it alone and do water changes; some say take a scientific approach and separate the fish to do individual medication treatments. I don't know what to do.

Is the ph of your tap water fairly similar to your tank water or is there a big difference?

I'm not sure. I never tested the tap water with the API kit.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Let me ask this:

If we forget the Melafix and just decide to do a water change again to remove the meds, is it alright if I dissolve the API Aquarium Salt in the new water going into the tank just as a tonic...or is this not recommended?

 

[jlk]

Ok, salt needs to be added gradually so your fish can adjust to the increasing salinity. Theres no getting around this. Do a big water change. Do you have any new carbon filter inserts? If so, remove some cycled media to a bucket of tank water & place the new inserts in the filters. Run them for @2-3 hrs to help remove any melafix & then replace them with the old media. Then you can start gradually adding salt solution. Salt will not cure fungal infections or prevent them though it can help with slimecoat, breathing & limit the infection. I would then suggest treating the tank with Jungle fungus meds since handling the fish is not an option. If you knew if your tap ph was the same as your tanks ph, I would suggest removing the fish temporarily & changing 100% of the water but this isnt an option right now.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Ok, salt needs to be added gradually so your fish can adjust to the increasing salinity. Theres no getting around this. Do a big water change.

Okay, so you are recommending another big water change? At least 50% like last time, yes?

Do you have any new carbon filter inserts? If so, remove some cycled media to a bucket of tank water & place the new inserts in the filters. Run them for @2-3 hrs to help remove any melafix & then replace them with the old media. Then you can start gradually adding salt solution.

Unfortunately, we ran out of the Aqueon filter cartridge replacements (I normally keep a six pack on hand), but what I did during the last 50% water change was dip the cartridges that are in there now in the old tank water (in a bucket of course)...is that okay to do again, or will this not remove the Melafix correctly?

Salt will not cure fungal infections or prevent them though it can help with slimecoat, breathing & limit the infection. I would then suggest treating the tank with Jungle fungus meds since handling the fish is not an option. If you knew if your tap ph was the same as your tanks ph, I would suggest removing the fish temporarily & changing 100% of the water but this isnt an option right now.

I don't think the pH is the same; would you just forget about considering salt altogether at this point and just suck everything out for a fresh water change? And you recommend then adding the Jungle meds once the water change is complete?