Our new tank, and cycling

[JBsDad]

Sounds to me like it might have stalled a bit. I'd suggest a PWC and re-dose the ammo.

I was thinking that myself, but todays test seems to show some difference in ammo and Nitrites. I had the wife and older daughter both look at the tests and they both say the ammonia looks more like 2ppm to them and the Nitrites look darker than 2ppm. They have not been looking at the tests each day, so I called them in for a "new eyes" approach. I'm not going to do anything for a few days, including looking at the test results. Maybe it was just my eyes being used to seeing the same colors over and over. We'll see.

 

[JBsDad]

OK, I tested this morning and looked at the results. Ammonia is still 4ppm, Nitrites are still 2ppm and Nitrates are maybe something above 0 as it's not pure yellow, but certainly not as orange as a 5. This is day 20 of the fishless cycle. Nitrites and ammo have not changed since day 11. When I get home from work this evening I will do a 30% pwc.

 

[JBsDad]

Well, I did a 20% pwc instead of 30%. Ammo dropped to about 3ppm. I'm not going to re-dose. Didn't check Nitrites, but I assume they dropped as well.

 

[Deckape]

I still recommend a few drops ph down.

 

[JBsDad]

I'll see if I can find some pH down for aquariums in the next few days. I wonder if it's the same chemical make-up as pH down used for a pool or hydroponics. I have both of those.

 

[eco23]

I'll see if I can find some pH down for aquariums in the next few days. I wonder if it's the same chemical make-up as pH down used for a pool or hydroponics. I have both of those.

The important part of the pH down is the phosphate content. Some brands contain no phosphates, so take a look at the ingredients if you go to pick some up.

 

[JBsDad]

So should it contain or not contain phosphates?

 

[Deckape]

This is the kind I used. I put 20 drops in my 55 gallon. It worked for me.

 

[eco23]

So should it contain or not contain phosphates?

Yes, it should. Ground up fish food should also contain a good amount of it, but I know Deckape had tremendous success with the pH down.

 

[JBsDad]

OK. Tuesday morning I went and bought a bottle of the API pH Down. Using Deckapes 20 drops for 55 gallons comes out to one drop/2.75 gallons of water. I used 11 drops to keep the ratio the same. This morning there is still zero change. Ammonia just below 4ppm, Nitrites 2ppm, Nitrates 0.

So now I have a question/theory. Once a cycle is completed, a major water change is recommended to reduce Nitrate. This water change, if done properly, does not affect the bacterial colony. So, to test the existance of any bacterial colony, isn't it possible to do a major water change using warmed, dechlorinated water, re-dose ammo, and expect some rise in Nitrites from zero after a day or two? This would prove the existance of at least some bacteria.
I am beginning to think something went dreadfully wrong here. I just can't imagine what it would have been though.

 

[eco23]

OK. Tuesday morning I went and bought a bottle of the API pH Down. Using Deckapes 20 drops for 55 gallons comes out to one drop/2.75 gallons of water. I used 11 drops to keep the ratio the same. This morning there is still zero change. Ammonia just below 4ppm, Nitrites 2ppm, Nitrates 0.

So now I have a question/theory. Once a cycle is completed, a major water change is recommended to reduce Nitrate. This water change, if done properly, does not affect the bacterial colony. So, to test the existance of any bacterial colony, isn't it possible to do a major water change using warmed, dechlorinated water, re-dose ammo, and expect some rise in Nitrites from zero after a day or two? This would prove the existance of at least some bacteria.
I am beginning to think something went dreadfully wrong here. I just can't imagine what it would have been though.

Hi JBsDad, some cycles seem to take longer to get off the ground than others, so it's not time to pull the panic switch quite yet. If you're into experimenting, it won't hurt to do a pwc (large or small) during the process, it's just usually not necessary. Just be sure to dechlorinate the water, try to match temps and don't leave the tank empty for too long because the sides can dry out and damage the BB.

I would test your tap water out of curiosity to see if it contains ammo and no2. Also, double check your bottle of ammo and make sure it is totally pure (no surfactants, perfumes, etc...). I'm sure you already have, but it might be a good idea to read back through and make sure we didn't miss something basic. I've had a couple people forget to add dechlorinator which significantly slowed the process (I'm sure you did, just an example of what can be forgotten). Keep us posted!

 

[JBsDad]

It looks like I have a problem. I have tested the tap water, ammo, no2, no3 all 0. The ammonia is plain ammonia, no other ingredients listed and it passes the shake test.

I put the filter media in a large bowl of tank water and changed the water all the way down to the gravel. I used warm water and API Tapwater Conditioner at a rate of 2 drops per gallon. The instructions call for 1 drop/2 gallons for chlorine or 6 drops/gallon for chloramine. I called the water treatment plant to confirm the use of chloramine or chlorine. Only chlorine is used, no chloramine.

I did the water change early Friday afternoon. This morning ammo is at 4ppm, no2 is 0 no3 is 0. I assume that after nearly 3 days, there should have been some change if the colony were still alive.

Today I plan on emptying the tank, cleaning everything in de-chlorinated water and using new filter media and a different de-chlorinator. I bought a new chlorine test kit for swimming pools, but the water in the tank shows no trace of chlorine.

Whatever went wrong, it must have happened around 4/24 (day 12). That seems to be the day that everything stopped. On 4/20 (day 8) ammo was 4, no2 0, no3 0. On day 9 ammo 4, no2 .25. Day 10 ammo 4, no2 1.0. Day 11 ammo 4 no2 2.0. That's where everything stopped. The readings never changed again until 5/2 (day 20) when I did the 20% pwc.

It's very odd. Everything was moving right along, as expected, then just came to a halt. I have a sneaky suspicion that something was added to the tank without my knowledge. We had a lot of people over on 4/23 for my birthday party. I can't help but wonder if some fool dumped a shot of bourbon or half a beer into my tank. The timeline fits and I was outside most of the day.

 

[eco23]

It looks like I have a problem. I have tested the tap water, ammo, no2, no3 all 0. The ammonia is plain ammonia, no other ingredients listed and it passes the shake test.

I put the filter media in a large bowl of tank water and changed the water all the way down to the gravel. I used warm water and API Tapwater Conditioner at a rate of 2 drops per gallon. The instructions call for 1 drop/2 gallons for chlorine or 6 drops/gallon for chloramine. I called the water treatment plant to confirm the use of chloramine or chlorine. Only chlorine is used, no chloramine.

I did the water change early Friday afternoon. This morning ammo is at 4ppm, no2 is 0 no3 is 0. I assume that after nearly 3 days, there should have been some change if the colony were still alive.

Today I plan on emptying the tank, cleaning everything in de-chlorinated water and using new filter media and a different de-chlorinator. I bought a new chlorine test kit for swimming pools, but the water in the tank shows no trace of chlorine.

Whatever went wrong, it must have happened around 4/24 (day 12). That seems to be the day that everything stopped. On 4/20 (day 8) ammo was 4, no2 0, no3 0. On day 9 ammo 4, no2 .25. Day 10 ammo 4, no2 1.0. Day 11 ammo 4 no2 2.0. That's where everything stopped. The readings never changed again until 5/2 (day 20) when I did the 20% pwc.

It's very odd. Everything was moving right along, as expected, then just came to a halt. I have a sneaky suspicion that something was added to the tank without my knowledge. We had a lot of people over on 4/23 for my birthday party. I can't help but wonder if some fool dumped a shot of bourbon or half a beer into my tank. The timeline fits and I was outside most of the day.

I still wouldn't suggest pulling the ejector seat, but it does seem like it stalled or experienced a bacteria die off for some reaoson, possibly alcohol related, lol.

If you do indeed decide to start over...I'd keep the filter material. People during a fishless cycle would kill for a piece of seeded filter material, and unless the mystery product added to the tank was a disinfectant, I wouldn't see any harm in at least using part of it in addition to new filter media.

 

[JBsDad]

I'd keep the filter material. People during a fishless cycle would kill for a piece of seeded filter material, and unless the mystery product added to the tank was a disinfectant, I wouldn't see any harm in at least using part of it in addition to new filter media.

Alcohol is a pretty good disinfectant...especially some of the stuff being passed around in mason jars that day. I am really thinking someone poured something into the tank. The tank was a bit of a "joke of the day" thing...fish tank with no fish.

 

[eco23]

Alcohol is a pretty good disinfectant...especially some of the stuff being passed around in mason jars that day. I am really thinking someone poured something into the tank. The tank was a bit of a "joke of the day" thing...fish tank with no fish.

Sounds like you either need new friends, weaker alcohol or a surveillance system for your aquarium, haha.

 

[shammond15731]

Just a quick question, how long after the ammonia starts dropping before the nitrites should start climbing? We are a week and 2 or 3 days into the cycle and I had to add more ammonia the third day (last monday) and have had to add more twice (Thursday and Saturday) since then, the latest add was late Saturday night, the level was 1ppm so I dosed it back up to 4ppm and just now it was 0.5ppm so I dosed it back to 4 but still no nitrites whatsoever, I haven't checked the nitrates since there are nitrates in our tap water anyway. Just wondering if I should have nitrites by now or am I being impatient?

 

[eco23]

Just a quick question, how long after the ammonia starts dropping before the nitrites should start climbing? We are a week and 2 or 3 days into the cycle and I had to add more ammonia the third day (last monday) and have had to add more twice (Thursday and Saturday) since then, the latest add was late Saturday night, the level was 1ppm so I dosed it back up to 4ppm and just now it was 0.5ppm so I dosed it back to 4 but still no nitrites whatsoever, I haven't checked the nitrates since there are nitrates in our tap water anyway. Just wondering if I should have nitrites by now or am I being impatient?

Do me a favor? I'm more than happy to help, but I don't want to hijack this poor guys thread (he's already had someone sabotage his fishless cycle, lol). Can you copy and paste this question onto the guide thread in my signature? I'll start typing up an answer.

 

[shammond15731]

Ugggh I hate using the browser on my phone sorry this was supposed to be under the almsot complete guide to fishless cycling. Again so sorry!!

 

[eco23]

Ugggh I hate using the browser on my phone sorry this was supposed to be under the almsot complete guide to fishless cycling. Again so sorry!!

No problem! . I'll be right over to that thread.

 

[JBsDad]

I'm pulling the plug and starting over. It's been 18 days since the cycle stalled and 6 days since the major water change. Ammo 4, NO2 0, NO3 0 Today is day 30 of the cycle overall.