pH and nitrAtes dropping.

The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
It would take almost 2 tablespoons to make the 3KH increase and you will more then likely need at least 1 tablespoon before its over thats only 1.5KH increase you need at least 3KH total..
 
Xzap,

Where did you get 40-80ppm NO3 so fast? Perhaps theres something much worse than kH/buffering going on. Dead fish? Incorrect test before?

Green,
It would take almost 2 tablespoons to make the 3KH increase and you will more then likely need at least 1 tablespoon before its over thats only 1.5KH increase you need at least 3KH total..
Click to expand...
tsp is a teaspoon, tbl or Tbl is a tablespoon ;)

Lets do the math just to make sure:
From Neil Frank at the krib:
A solution of 17.9 mg/L of CaCO3 in water gives KH of 1. This
solution contains 0.179 mM Ca++, but does not contain any significant CO3--,
because this is converted to HCO3-, of which two are formed from each CO3--,
giving 0.358 mM HCO3-. We thus want 0.358 mM NaHCO3 in the solution. The
molecular weight of this is 84, so we want 30 mg/L sodium bicarbonate. In 50
U.S. gallons, this amounts to 5.68 g or a little more than 1 teaspoon (1.1 t).
Click to expand...
NaHCO3 being baking soda. I'm no chem whiz, but get that there ends up being two HCO3- to 1 Ca. Lets continue with Xzap's tank at 29g to raise 1dkH.
.358 mM/L NaHCO3 * 84.1g/M NaHCO3 * 3.79L/gal * 29gal = 3.31g (or 3.309x10^3mg)

Using http://users.ev1.net/~spituch/Chemicals/chemicals.html
(grams of compound) / [(density of compound) x (14.79] = (tablespoons of compound)
Click to expand...

With density in g/cm^3, and NaHCO3 with density of 2.2 g/cm^3, and 3 tsp in 1 Tbl:
3.31g / (2.2g/cm^3 x 14.79cm^3/Tbl) * 3 tsp/Tbl = .31 tsp

Lets do it to raise 25g 1dkH, losing ~15% of X's volume from substrate and stuff.
.358 mM/L NaHCO3 * 84.1g/M NaHCO3 * 3.79L/gal * 25gal = 2.853g
2.853g/(2.2g/cm^3 x 14.79cm^3/Tbl) * 3 tsp/Tbl = .26 tsp

Anyone - please correct me if I messed up the calcs. HTH
 
Easier.
29g
3.31g / 2.2g/cm^3 * 1tsp/4.9cm^3 = .31 tsp

25g
2.85g /2.2g/cm^3 * 1tsp/4.9cm^3 = .26 tsp

But this or longer formula shows 50g raised 1dkH needs .53 tsp, though gram calculation ends up the same. :scrambleup:
 
LOL.. ok.. my brain was fried :scramble: .. tsb=teaspoons not tablespoons..LOL and one third of a tablespoon is one teaspoon..
I think the increase in NO3 is most likely from the poor mans dosing.. it needs tweeked pretty bad from the sounds of it.. 40-80ppm is way too much dosing of nitrate..
 
czcz.. all your calculations are dead on :jump: yeah right, I got lost right after baking soda !

I'm going to tweak my pmdd a bit. My current concoction is 1& 1/2 tsp no3 & 1 tsp po4 per week, divided into 4 equals dose. Flourish on the other 3 days, then I do a w/c.

Dang, I hope I'm getting all these symbols and chemical names right! I might raise some kinda alligator or somethin'

Thx,

Dave

Updated: pH is 6.4 today
I order my kh test kit and will post my results next week. I'm also off to get a cuttle bone today.
 
I got a small cuttlebone. It's about 4" X 2" and 1/2" thick.
How much of it should I use, the whole thing ? Can I just drop it in my hot or should I incorporate it in my Fluval ?

Thx,

dave
 
I would put the whole thing in the HOT.. Im thinking it would be easier to get to incase you need to take it out if its in the HOT..
You need to stop dosing the tank until you can get your NO3 down... what is it now..
I would do very large pwc's to get it down.. 75%
 
pH is 6.6, ates are 40 - 80. I've added the cuttlebone now.

IMO, there's not an appreciable difference in the colors of 40 & 80 on the API color chart.

Thx,

Dave
 
Dave - Did you start PMDD after dropping to 0 Ates, or were you adding KNO3 before? Check out Malkore's guide on fertilizing a planted tank above or start a new thread -- after your next big pwc, bump up your NO3 to ~10-20 and measure at the same time every day to see what your plant uptake is. Then you'll know how much if any NO3 you need, and how often. Chuck's Calc has you adding ~50ppm NO3 a week if the 1.5tsp is KNO3, which is quite a bit even for a high light, high uptake systems.

Dunno about cuttlebone. I would stick to baking soda plan since you've already started, or wait for kH test so you can track what the cuttlebone is doing,
 
Ok, here's where I'm at now.
1. Added 1 tsp of baking soda over a 3 day period. That's one TOTAL tsp divided by 3 days.
2. Added a cuttlebone to my hob today.

Now stats are:
pH 6.6 - 6.8
ates 10 :)

cz.. I started pmdd when my ates were 40. And yes, the 1.5 tsp is kno3. It appears the dosage needs to be cut back a tad ?

Dave
 
Yeah, though that NO3 drop from last measurement is high (40ppm doesnt need more NO3, but it appears your tank is eating it up). Travis' tank has highest NO3 uptake I've read about and he's ~7.5ppm/day iirc. How about tracking NO3 (and PO4 too if you can), then adding ~10ppm as AP test gets to 5? Its easier to track changes at low end of AP test scale. What's your wpg, CO2, and plant load? Only curious. Dosing by measurement is far superior to test kits in terms of accuracy, btw.
 
It looks like you have 50%plant coverage give or take and medium light... You shouldnt have to dose with ferts. so hard.. you really do need to track the tanks usage of NO3& anything else your doseing.. 40ppm NO3 is not a acceptable level for your fish.. even in high consumption tanks its not dosed to get over 20ppm.. If I remember right travis doses to get 15 or 20 ppm..
 
Dave - I should have read first post again and checked your gallery :) One way to see if your test numbers make sense is to look at plant mass: if your system really ate >30ppm on NO3 in one day (unless there was pwc in there), your plants would have grown a heck of a lot, right? From my limited experience such high uptake from 2wpg doesnt make sense, and AP tests haven't always been kind to me (my PO4 test lies ;) )... please continue to post data if you end up tracking NO3/PO4 uptake, as I may be wrong and am interested in your results.
 
I just did a test and my ph is staying at 6.6 - 6.8 and ates are still 10.
Yes, I did a pwc cz between that big no3 drop from 40 to 10.
I haven't added any kno3 today.
sooooo, should I cut way back on my dosing and aim for 15 -20 ates ?

Remember, I'm still learnin' all these chemical symbols :turn-l:

Thx,

dave

CZ.. check out my ECS I posted in DIY :)
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=56250
 
I wouldn't worry about NO3 target until I knew NO3 uptake rate. Say, for sake of discussion, your system eats ~2ppm NO3/day. A better target would be 10ppm NO3, with 5ppm dosed every other day. If you had >1ppm PO4 and want to reach target ratio (10:1 NO3 : PO4 is recommended), you would just increase your NO3 dose after pwc.

How often are you topping off water? If you measure your NO3 uptake and how much water you're adding to the system, you can use your ECS as a dosing chamber, and top off with fertilizer rich water. That would be super cool. I can help you with the math of this after you get data, if you want to.
 
Ok, under my desk I have 1 lbs of Potassium Nitrate, which is kno3, correct?
I also have 1 lbs of Potassium Phosphate, which is po4, correct ?

My no3 level is 10 ppm right now and I want to measure how much my plants take up per day ? week ?
BTW, my spoons are marked smidgen, pinch and dash.

I top off about 1/2 gal a week..

You're right CZ, that ECS would make a great dosing chamber huh ?

Dave
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

J
pH drops every day
Replies
5
Views
427
Andy Sager
Andy Sager
T
Perpetually high nitrates no matter what I do! Dozens of water changes later.
Replies
11
Views
1K
Andy Sager
Andy Sager
A
Weird Nitrates AND Nitrites readings HELP!!
Replies
5
Views
510
Colin_T
C
C
Nitrates and Ammonia Problem
Replies
3
Views
484
Colin_T
C
J
High PH
Replies
5
Views
412
Andy Sager
Andy Sager

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom