Planted tank/Sick Fish...HELP!

[BondStreet]

Hi there....

I am an idiot.

A couple of days ago, I had a beautiful Albino Angel die of fungus. I was hoping that it didn't affect any of my other fish, as they were totally fine it seemed. However, yesterday, I found that one of my large swordtails now has fungus on it's mouth. URRRRRGGGH!

My problems is that I have a planted tank. I am assuming that treatment IN the tank is a bad idea cause of the plants? Is it safe at all to treat fish in a tank with live plants and not risk the lives of the plants? I have Java Fern, Large Anubias, Cobomba, and some water onions. It kills me to think all my other fish will get it as well although none are showing anything and are swimming and eating just fine. They all seem happy. Oh and also my water quality seems great.

I spoke with my LFS and they said that fungus is not likely to spread unless there is damage to the other fishes' skin. Is this true? I am not all that confident in their advice.

Also, after doing some online research, it seems like there isn't really a med that won't kill my plants. The LFS, however, says there is a Tea Tree Oil treatment available that is natural and doesn't affect plants, but is effective. Anyone know anything about this?

I am also posting this on the Planted tank forum

ANY and ALL advice would be appreciated...
Bonstreet

 

[IronDogg]

Well, I have treated planted tanks with Maracyn I & II, and Melafix with no ill effects to the plants at all. These are the meds that I would recommend you treat with. First thing you should do though is a very large water change (like 85% or more), then treat the water according to the meds directions.

 

[brotherd]

Melafix.Smells bad but it works!You need to remove any carbon from the filter before using it.After treatment,a big water change and install new carbon.Watch for any secondary problems like weird behavior that might indicate an internal problem.Hard to spot but I find that sick fish will usually end up with more than one problem.I agree with the above post.Good luck!

 

[BondStreet]

Thanks!
So far, I took out the carbon from my Eheim filter and started the Melafix treatment. You're right. It has an intense smell. Oh well.
My question now is, it is ok to run my filter without the carbon correct? I assume so. But just making sure.
Also, I will keep you posted on how successful or not the treatment is. Mainly, I don't want to kill other healthy fish or kill any plants I have.
Cross your fingers for me!
Thanks for all help!
Bondstreet

 

[brotherd]

i have not had any ill effects on plants or healthy fish using Melafix.The reason to remove the carbon is that it will absorb the medication making it neutralized.If you are wondering,yes the polutants in the tank will increase but only temporarily untill you do the water change and replace the carbon.No worries.

 

[Guest]

Bondstreet,

After your cycle of treatment, put the carbon back in for a week, do a 30-50% water change, then remove the carbon altogether. In the long run, the carbon will remove trace elements that your plants need. I only use carbon after a medicine treatment cycle, otherwise, i leave it out.

Good luck with the sick fishies!

 

[BondStreet]

Hey guys...thanks for the advice.

Take the Carbon out after just a week huh? Wow. Never thought of that. I'll take your advice about putting it in for a week then removing it. Thanks for that.

So far, so good. All th fish seem fine for now. The sick fish still have some cotton-like fungus on them, but the are swimming around and eating, so I guess this is a good sign huh? None of the other fishes have it either yet - thank God.

Well, will keep you posted. Thanks for your help! Lemme know if anything else comes to mind.

Bondstreet

 

[Guest]

Take the Carbon out after just a week huh?

Well, I don't know how long the ttreatment cycle is for melafix, but yes I'd take it out a few days AFTER the treatment is over. Week was just a how long i've had treatment cycles for before.

 

[IronDogg]

Corvus' suggestion to have the carbon in for a week after treatment is a good suggestion and a very good reminder about carbon removing trace elements for your plants. Just don't forget that carbon only works for about a month or so and then it is no longer useful as a media to remove pollutants. If it is left in the filter any longer, it will simply turn into a filter media with lots of surface area that healthy bacteria can grow on (which is a good thing too). So if your carbon is older than that it won't do you any good anyway. What will help is another very large water change (again 85% or more - whatever level you can get the water down to without causing your fish too much distress) right after the treatment is over.
Also Melafix will not cure fungus and secondary infections itself. You will need a Maracyn I & II cocktail for that. The Melafix will help cure up any external damage to scales, and fins, etc, though. Keep up the regular water changes, and I'm sure that your fish will do fine...
Let us know how things turn out...

 

[BondStreet]

Problem with the maracyn I and II is that I am worried about my plants being affected. Are those antibiotics ok to use in a planted tank? Just want to make CERTAIN they won't affect the plants. So far so good with the Melafix.

Bondstreet

PS - i got my Carboplus System today. Totally psyched. Should I wait till I am done medicating to use install the Carboplus? I am running in a bucket thus far as directed till i install it in my tank

 

[Guest]

You can put the carboplus in as soon as the directions that came with it say so, Co2 won't affect medication.

I believe, the marycyn products are essentially the antibiotic erythromycin. I treated my planted tank with ery for a week, no ill effects on the plants, and it doesn't kill the beneficial bacteria in your tank or filter.

 

[BondStreet]

Thanks Corvuscorax...

I need your help once more. I need final word on what Maracyn does to plants. Here is the thing. I bought Maracyn and just put in half the dosage into my 75 gal planted cause I keep hearing conflicting advice. One LFS tells me, don't use it, my plants will die. Another says use full dosage. And yet another tells me only use half the dosage.
Online, I read that Maracyn has done nothing to live plants. Therefore, for now I only used half the recommended dosage. Should I use the full dosage? keep in mind I am using Melafix as well. Am I gonna kill everything in my tank? So far all the other non-sick fish seem totally fine. And the plants look fine.
Help!
Thanks for the advice. I did as much research and calling around as I could, but I only ended up with several different opinions.
Bondstreet

 

[Guest]

OK, so far as I understand neither of these products will kill your plants.

I GUARANTEE the maracyn will not, it is erytrhomicyn, which I used in my tank for a week, with no ill effects to my plants. (Thats Marycyn I, never tried marycin II, but I wouldn't as it will kill your beneficial bacteria).

Melafix, I could find no reason that it would kill your plants either, but have no personal experience with it.

My primary question is this, why both meds?, from what i read, 1 or the other should suffice.

If the melafix is working, leave the marycin out, you never want to double treat, no info on what the combination will do. I'm leary of too much medication, especially in unknown combinations from 2 different manufacturers.

 

[BondStreet]

The only reason I am "double" treating is because Iron Dogg mentioned in a previous post that Melafix will only cure the external infection and not take care of the primary internal infection. Therefore, I thought I should do both. Should I not? I was assuming that Melafix wouldn't be all that detrimental if combined with the Melafix because it is a natural medication.
Oy, my head is swimming with opinion.
What would you do? I have a planted 75gal tank with community fish(angels, tetras, mollies, etc.) all who are doing ok except for an angel and a sword who have fungus on their bodies and mouths.
I, too, hate the thought of adding too many chemicals.
Any thoughts?
Bondstreet

 

[Guest]

I had a similar situation a few months ago, lost three small angels (didn't catch the disease sign earky enough), my big boys survived. I used erythrimycin from the vet. I have felines, explained my situation and he wrote me a 'scriptt for waaay less $$ than marycin. Like i said, the small angels didn't make it, but the big angels were highly infected, and they pulled through just fine.
if i were you, 50% water change, full dose of marycin only, for as long as the package says.

"Natural only" dont mean jack to me, nature conains good and bad, it's a crap shoot.

Pleas keep us informed of progress on your situation. Hope my ad vice, or whatever you decide, works out for the best.

 

[IronDogg]

Well, there are many types of bacterial infections and Maracyn I doesn't cover them all. So to be on the safe side, I will treat with Maracyn II at the same time. Maracyn I will treat the fungus and any "gram positive" bacterial infections, and Maracyn II will treat any potential secondary "gram negative" infections that may occur. Maracyn I & II are complementary and safe to use together. Melafix will help heal up external damage quickly. I have never had any problems with plants while using this mixture, but I'm not 100% positive that it will NOT affect your plants. I guess it depends on the sensitivity of your plants. I have mostly low light, hardy species so maybe it might make a difference, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. Make sure to follow the directions of the medicines.
Melafix, and Maracyn I & II "when used as directed will not interfere with the biological filter".
All this info can be found in the little pamphlet that came with your package of Maracyn I or II.

 

[BondStreet]

Ok Guys,
What I decided to do, is do one more night of Melafix as the infected Angel has unfortunately croaked and the remaining infected swordtail is losing all his external fungus. Then, tomorrow I will just do the full dosage of Maracyn for the 5 days as recommended. After that, I will do the big water change.
I really appreciate your help so far. I guess I am assuming that melafix is great to treat external problems infections bring along, but Maracyn and Mar II are necessary to treat the internal infections. That's at least my conclusion to the whole "sickness" issue.
At least I know that both aren't expected to be detrimental to my plants.
I totally appreciate your advice and will keep you posted on a daily basis as to the status of the tank.
Wish me luck!
Bondstreet

 

[Guest]

See, I have to disagree on maracyn II. It is listed on their website as a broad spectum antibiotic, which I believe will kill your beneficial bacteria. I could be wrong, but I don't like broad spectrum antibiotics in a tank.

Sorry about the Angel, Bondst, but it happens to all of us sooner or later. Losing fish is part of the hobby, we just all try to keep it to a minimum.

 

[IronDogg]

Yeah, I share your concern totally, corvus. Antibiotics basically means anti-life, so I would be concerned if medicating a sensitive fish and/or tank for sure. That is why quarantine and hospital tanks are so recommended. Then if any unforseen problems occur, they won't happen in your main show tank. My quarantine tank is heavily planted btw.

However, Maracyn I is also a broad spectrum antibiotic. Mardel makes about 5 or 6 different antibacterial medicines and they claim that all of these products will not affect the nitrobacter and nitrosomonas strains of bacteria in your tank, as long as it is medicated as directed. Like I have said, I have used them with no ill effects to plants or my biological filter...

We can simply agree to disagree on this, but you might want to read the information brochure that comes with the Maracyns... If nothing else, it is an intersting read...

 

[Guest]

I suppose we just disagree, but thats fine. I try to only use meds when absolutely necessary anyway, and actually have a Q tank set up now, so hopefully will never have to treat the main tank if and when the time comes.