Please help: Sterbai Cory paralysis, twitching, "seizures"

[Alyssum]

Yeah, it was bittersweet because my betta's fin rot has come back with a vengeance. It seems the kanaplex didn't help as much I would have liked. I got so focused on other things I didn't pay attention to his fin shrinking. I quarantined him and I'm giving him a different treatment, so I don't have to worry about him eating their food. My concern is leaving the blood worms in will cause the nitrates to go up fast. I heard the medicine leeches out of the food, so the quicker they eat it the better. Could be a gimmick by seachem to buy their focus product, I don't know. I'm hoping for the best. My cory is still about the same, he can use his fins now, but still not 100% function. Since he can use them now, when he twitches he springs up like he's on a trampoline, which is kinda funny. My other cory seems to be having swim bladder problems and the back part of her body will start to float up, but she rights herself, then it goes away. Her pigment is also is a bit lighter than I'd like, like she is stressed, but she has always been on the lighter side. She was the "runt" of the group and was always slow to eat compared to the others, which might explain her small size. I don't know if the swim bladder problems are caused by the same parasites. I hope so, so that I don't have to get more medications.

 

[Delapool]

How are they all going today?

 

[Alyssum]

They are pretty stable. Sick cory is still twitching every 5 seconds or so, sometimes longer. He is surfacing for air and can sometimes school with the others. Too early to tell if he will recover completely. The other cories seem less stressed. My betta is less bloated, but uncertain what will happen with the fins. Hopefully this all works out. I'll update.

 

[Delapool]

Fingers crossed!

 

[Matt68005]

Welcome to hexitimata, hole in the head disease. It's not neon terra disease (tetrahyema) I have had it in my tanks recently, so have slot of people, seems like these fish diseases come like the cold and flu season for humans, one person gets it we all do. It can be tough to get rid of, but metronidazole will work give it time

 

[Delapool]

Welcome to hexitimata, hole in the head disease. It's not neon terra disease (tetrahyema) I have had it in my tanks recently, so have slot of people, seems like these fish diseases come like the cold and flu season for humans, one person gets it we all do. It can be tough to get rid of, but metronidazole will work give it time

That's so weird, I've seen that here to. Go into the lfs and we're all buying the same stuff. I guess it makes sense though.

 

[Matt68005]

It is wierd! i run across it so often, because more often than not ill notice it on one of my guppies and get the little bugar out of there before he makes them all sick, and then ill come on here and notice 2 or 3 threads about the same disease/parasite that i just pulled out of my tank......Maybe its a season thing, like fungus in winter, columnaris in summer, parasites in fall ...ect ect ect.
Fungus likes cold water.....
Colunaris likes warm water....
Parasites need to die!
ect ect.
lol

 

[Alyssum]

Here's my update. Been a bit too depressed to post anything.

My betta died from complications of surgery due to severe fin rot. There was no other way to rid of the dead flesh except by removing it, but he didn't make it. Really crushed about this. His fin biting left him open to this infection and I couldn't get it under control. Despite my efforts of quarantining him, treating with different medicines, daily water changes, etc it continued to spread.

As for my cories...Twitchy is still twitching. I am uncertain if his condition is improving or he has permanent damage. He seems to be gaining some more of his mobility back. He is more able to "peck" at the ground like the others and school. With some difficulty, he is able to swim against the glass in the mid level of the aquarium and come up for air. I'm actually really impressed he has hung on this long. He looked really bad about a week ago, I seriously thought he was a goner. He was lying on his side, barely moving, tail curled. He looks completely different now. His tail still curls after strenuous activity though.

However, as I mentioned before, I am concerned about my other cories. They are showing a different problem. They seem to be having balance issues. It's not horrible yet, I saw it happen a week ago where one completely lost control which was horrifying to watch, but I haven't seen an episode like that since. I don't know if they are getting better or not. At one point, one of them was starting the same thing with their spine curling a week ago. I still see a very slight curve at times, but it has not gotten worse. Perhaps they all have balance problems, twitchy cory couldn't make himself float and still has difficulty, and they tip over. I observe them quite often now to see if there are any changes, so that is all I have to report.

This is the second week of treating with prazipro and metroplex. I emailed Hikari about how to dose prazipro and they said to completely eradicate most parasites I have to treat the tank for 3 weeks, which is not stated on the bottle.

I looked at HITH disease, some sites listed lack of appetite and actual holes and I saw neither. Perhaps it is in earlier stages? Should I be treating metro in the tank and well as internally? I'm feeding them metroplex blood worms. I don't know how long I should treat them, I've been giving it relatively often, well past 3 treatments. Should I stop? I don't have Seachem Focus which is supposed to "bind" the metro and the food. I soak the metro for 20 minutes in blood worms. So I'm wondering if they are getting the amount they need or I should get focus. If it is Hexamita then Prazipro is no effective, at least from what I've gleaned from the internet.

Here is a video of how they are right now. You can see one of them losing balance. It's yellow in the tank because I put a roobios tea bag in there. Hopefully that is not causing any harm.

http://v8.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=21cxe9t&s=8

 

[Alyssum]

The most damaged cory continues to improve, he is gaining more control of his body and is able to swim pretty well, but definitely not like a regular cory. Coloration is turning to normal (was darkened). Still twitches. They lose balance occasionally. My main concern is their spines still curl to one side, I've seen one of the other ones doing it too. Not sure what else I could do, as I have no idea what might be causing it. I thought it would go away. I'm going to try a vitamin supplement just to help them replenish vitamins they have lost from the parasites, other than that I am at a loss. It is frustrating because I don't think it'll be safe to add new fish with them in this condition. I'm kinda nervous to stop treatment, but it probably is not helping any more at this point. I don't think it's scoliosis because it is not a permanent curvature and looks nothing like the pictures I have seen.

 

[Delapool]

Was that a week of treatment? Would it be worth continuing for another week?

 

[Alyssum]

It's been about 2 weeks I think, so technically it should be more than enough time. He is still twitching, but at least he can function now. I bought another betta, but I don't want to add him in yet until I know it is safe, so it might be never.

 

[Matt68005]

The twitching and so forth is because HOTH parasite breaks out of the fishes gut and enters the bloodstream, a form of parasite septima, then goes to the brain and other organs and shuts them down.
Im not 100% sure its HOTH, and you DO NOT need to visibally see it, in fact its more of Malawi chichlid bloat than HOTH. Your doing the best you can do by treating with metro and prazipro, this parasite is stubborn, my fish have had it for at least 2 months now, it seems to kill small fish and only "bother" big fish.
Sounds like were in the same boat. Ive hard of people loosing hundreds of dollars worth of chiclids to this dang parasite, maybe check some chiclid forums to figure out how to get rid of this. Metro both in food and water, and a strong dose of it daily with 25-50% water changes before redosing for a week, SHOULD clear it up. Maybe its time for you to get a ten gallon hospital tank and keep all the sick fish in there and try this treatment.
If you so choose here is a place to get the metro food. It is better than just in the water because the fish take it in directly to their gut.
http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-su.../kens-premium-metronidazole-garlic-flake.html
And here is the powder form.
http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-supplies/fish-medication/metronidazole-powder.html

 

[Alyssum]

I have been treating for about two weeks with metro blood worms/pellets. I only dosed it in the tank once though. I've dosed prazi twice, but I heard it is ineffective on hexamita so I have stopped that. Perhaps he has suffered permanent damage from what has happened, even though the parasites are already dead. I guess I liken it to someone who has a traumatic brain injury, which takes months to recover from, if they recover at all. I'm not sure if I should continue metro. I've fed it at least 8 times by now. I don't have any other fish in the tank and it's only a ten gallon, so at this point a new tank is kinda pointless. I have another betta, but I will have to keep him in his own place for the time being.

Do you think I should feed them a kanaplex+metroplex combo, for secondary bacterial infection?

Edit: Hmm, I didn't know I needed to keep feeding the meds for 30 days. The **** bottle is not clear, just "until symptoms disappear". I guess that is clear. I don't know. Perhaps I got it mixed up with kanaplex. Man, I hope I didn't let the parasite take a foothold because of that. Sigh. I'm going to start treating with metroplex again tomorrow, since I already fed them.

 

[Matt68005]

30 days? Where does it day that? My metro food says for 6_7 days...

 

[Alyssum]

On the seachem website a representative recommends using it for 30 days to "eradicate parasites". My bottle says "until symptoms disappear". Too much conflicting information everywhere. The sickest cory seems to be getting slightly worse, he twitches while swimming now, which he did not do before.

Seachem Metroplex - Seachem Support Forums

"For Ich in saltwater, we recommend at least 21 days, and at least 14 days in freshwater. The duration of treatment really depends on what you are treating for. However, we usually use Metronidazole in a food mix for 30 days to eradicate parasites."

 

[Alyssum]

Cories acting strange today. Two of the cories started leaning on each other, both facing toward me, almost like they were losing balance. One is large and the other is small, so I'm going to assume they are opposite sexes. They were wiggling vigorously against each other but like I said their sides were against each other, making a triangle between them. I thought it might be some kind of mating ritual, but it didn't quite look like mating videos I have seen. They didn't make any T shape or vigorously swim around the tank against each other. They seem to be acting lethargic but nudging and hovering around each other in some odd way, it's hard to describe. Maybe they are getting into some "mating phase" or maybe they are just doing sickly cory stuff.

Still can't tell if they are getting worse or better. I could swear I see the other two starting to "twitch" but I could just be hyper vigilant. They still lose balance for a split second. Crippled cory still twitches and seems more "agitated" by it now, he also twitches while swimming, which he did not do before. I guess it's getting worse? He has more control of his swim bladder it seems...

I've been giving them food infused with focus and metro and adding it in the tank. I might try switching to kanaplex instead as this might be a secondary bacterial infection. I read about a similar disease elsewhere and theirs died within days, so it is very strange.

 

[Coursair]

One thing IMO would be, a 10g is much too small for sterbai. They get over 2.5"

I would get them into a 40Breeder and add more sterbai. Heat at least 78f as these are warmer water fish. Small tanks can have parameters swing more rapidly.

A 10g will stunt them IME. For fry it's fine. For breeding it's fine. For long term ? Too small IMHO

http://www.planetcatfish.com/common/species.php?species_id=316




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[Alyssum]

I was planning on getting a larger tank, which I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, but I do not think it is appropriate at this point. My sterbais are dying and there are only 3 at present and I definitely wouldn't want to put healthy cories in with them because whatever this is, it is contagious. Nothing else is in the tank and at a constant 77 degrees.

They are still declining in health even though I change the water every 1-2 days/vacuum and trying four different medications (obviously not the right ones). It has been almost 2 months with this problem. Their spines are going crooked, C shaped, (not in the typical TB way) and their bellies are getting red patches all over them. They still eat and you wouldn't know they were ill by just glancing. You have to take them out of the tank and observe them in a small cup.

At this point I'm out of ideas. I'm almost to the point where I feel like I should euthanize them. I wish I could send them to laboratory after they die to find out what was wrong, but being a casual fish keeper I can't afford such a thing. Maybe if I had my own microscope. I'm still open to suggestions.

I recently tried tetracycline to see if it'd help with septicemia, but I saw no change. Probably killed my bb too. I know you have to be careful with that medicine if your fish is anemic. So to date I've tried, prazipro, metro (oral and bath), kanaplex (oral and bath), focus (which is a binder and has furan in it supposedly) and TC tetracycline from AP (oral and bath)I. I have furan from API but I don't want to dump more medications in and as far as I know furan works more with outside infections.

Their symptoms:

The worst cory (Twitchy) is still twitching, going off by herself more often, twitches when swimming ( not much change from my last post), has redness in the gill area that seems abnormal, maybe inflammation. I can be wrong, I admit I don't know if this redness is normal, but I've never seen it like this before. Her barbels were growing then started eroding again while the other two's barbels have grown quite long since the treatment.

They all have slightly sunken bellies with red patches on them, like irritation. Their spines go into C shapes at times, not always though, which they straighten out. One of them is bending in two places instead of a C shape (Big Bertha), more like a C shape then at the base of the tail it goes in the other direction. They have redness at the base of their tail fin.

The healthier cories have balance issues every so often for a split second. They'll "drop" their bodies for a moment then right themselves. I've seen them suddenly "slam" their face and side of their bodies into the sand and swim through it rapidly, then swim off, which has started happening in the past week.It's hard to say if the metro+prazi was helping. I was treating with it for at least three weeks. The sunkeness defintely improved on Twitchy, but progress stagnated and the other cories started showing symptoms.

*Apologies if there are too many pics, I'll move them to links if it is a problem*

My largest cory (Big Bertha), she looks pretty normal from the side, except for redness at the base of the fin. I have names for them so I can tell them apart.

Purplish hue with no flash

Twitchy (I don't know if the camera really captures the abnormal redness around the gills that I can see even with little light)

Little Cory - He seems the least unhealthy of the bunch right now.

 

[Coursair]

****
I love sterbai, sorry you're still having issues.

Have you posted on Planet Catfish ?


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[Alyssum]

Yeah, I am pretty upset to see them like this. I really care about my fish

I have actually posted on about 4-5 different forums (including planet catfish) and I update them all. I haven't gotten any game changing information. No one seems to know what the hell this really is, it doesn't quite fit this or that. That is why I'd like to analyze their tissue when they die to see what this really is, which I think could help others who may run into this problem in the future. My best guess is a parasite with a secondary bacterial infection, which some people have mentioned, but it is impossible to tell which ones without an analysis of tissues, which of course would mean my fish would already have to be dead.

One forum I posted on said they saw "nothing wrong" with my fish. I've gotten suggestions of nitrate poisoning, nitrite poisoning, hexamita, ammonia poisoning, chlorine poisoning, gas poisoning, some parasite etc. So yeah, not much to go on

One of the "experts" on planet catfish suggested levamisole and gave me a link to a $30 bag of medication.