Please help: Sterbai Cory paralysis, twitching, "seizures"

[Coursair]

Sometimes tap water gets contaminated. They flush the system or add things.
I know someone on here lost their whole tank.

Many Cories are still WC so may come in with parasites or issues that don't show up till later.

Our tests show the main things in our water, but if a whole tank is affected I think of the water first. But if just one group within the tank is affected then it can be much harder to track down.


Smoke signals from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Alyssum]

I'm trying to think of the constants (like the water) and one thing I have not tried is sterilizing the whole tank. It is possible the gravel is hiding something and keeps reinfecting them. I've decided to take the plunge and sterilize everything as best I can with a saturated salt solution which should kill most living things, I doubt I can remove every single germ, but I can try to bring down the numbers. I have no idea if the water has changed. I do have a new betta who seems perfectly fine in his own tank and the same dechlorinated tap water.

I'm trying to make it as easy as I can for them and acclimate them to the water when the time comes. I'm removing everything - even my filter media. I figure why not at this point? It won't cost me anything. I can't afford to go out and buy a whole new set of things, so this is the best I can do. Unfortunately it will kill all the good stuff too, but I'm cleaning the tank so often anyway. They will still have the infection inside them, so I will still have to figure what I else I can do about that.

I asked my LFS if they were wild caught and they said they don't know, that they get both bred and WC I had a betta in the tank with them (he died a few weeks ago from something else), but he never showed any of the symptoms they are.

 

[Delapool]

Can you list the dosing order of the meds and if you were combining again? Reading back it looked like they were getting better and then worse (?) and wondering if that coincided with any changes in med dosing or tank in general.

 

[Alyssum]

I regret not writing down the dosages I did, but when I first got the metro and prazipro, I dosed prazipro into the tank as instructed on the bottle and continued treatment for two weeks. Along side this I was soaking their food with metronidazole by seachem and believe putting it in the water as well. I saw that first improvement with Twitchy where her paralysis disappeared and her distended belly improved. I kept going with that for about two weeks as well. I noticed that the other two were getting worse and curving their spines, losing balance, so it seemed the medication was not working anymore for them or something else was wrong. I stopped the prazipro because someone on this forum told me it was probably hexamita which is not affected by praziquantel. I stopped metro because I didn't know if it was safe to continue. An expert on planet catfish told me they saw no benefit in continuing treatment with these medicines as well, so I believed in that. I didn't want to just sit there and twiddle my thumbs because they were getting worse and I was advised to resume medicine on this forum, so I decided to resume treatment a week later. I went out and bought focus from seachem to help with absorption of food, so I soaked metro, focus, and kanaplex into their food because I suspected bacterial infection (also suggested on this forum) They continued to get worse so about 6 days in and decided to stop.

I waited a few days and decided to try API TC tetracycline because I found a website from a guy that owns a commercial fish business that mentioned the C shaped spine and redness I was observing might point to septicemia from a bacterial infection, which is not always responsive to treatments and usually means there is organ failure. He mentions that this infection doesn't always present the same and there is acute and chronic forms. Obviously they have the chronic form. He recommended tetracycline, but did not say which kind. He also mentioned that the bacteria that causes it has grown immune to tetracyline in most cases and to try romet instead, but I could not find romet anywhere and it was expensive online.

I was told on this forum that TC tetracycline by API is for gram POSITIVE bacteria so I felt stupid for making such a rash choice and I stopped treatment after that recommended dosage was up (4 packets every day with water change) I'm starting to question these treatment times on the packages. Of course they did not improve and I feel so hopeless and guilty now. I wanted to give their little bodies a break. They continue to eat and stay the same.

I am nervous they will stop eating one day and time is ticking. I only have two other medicines I am considering, levamisole which is another anti parasitic recommended to me by the expert on planet catfish and romet which is very hard to find, but I found someone willing to sell me a medicated food. Romet is promising for treating septicemia, granted this what they have.

I am very concerned that I switched medicines too fast, but I was skeptical they were working since they were getting worse. Any advice is welcome.

 

[Delapool]

Sorry for the lack of a reply. Hectic week. Nothing immediately pops out there and I don't think it has been a bad strategy. Threads that I've seen work have combined meds and done double or triple courses of meds. So I was going to look back into that as a higher risk strategy but as the fish are going anyway.

 

[Delapool]

Imo I would continue the metro permanently as part of the meds dosing. Just for its use against some internal bacteria and parasites as well it seemed to make a difference. And then try other meds in with it.

Perhaps they meant oxytetracycline which could be useful for septicemia (unless viral).

The Romet I couldn't find much on (sulfadinmethoxine and ormetoprin). Tripple sulpha sounded like it could substitute for the first, no idea on the second. Overall though it looked for bacterial treatments? Could be better than oxytetracycline.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Levamisol - well, I think it is a stretch but we seem to be scratching for ideas and it seemed to be a bit broader range for treating parasites. [/FONT]You could give it a go.

 

[Delapool]

Actually the romet sounded promising for bacterial / parasites. Finally found a decent link on it. Triple sulpha I've had luck using where other meds have failed. Can't comment on the ormetoprim.

I would still dose with metro though.


http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/sulfadxx.htm

 

[Alyssum]

Thanks for your replies. It was pretty hectic here as well with Christmas and all that. My cories are still about the same, dare I say a little better. The redness is going away on the healthier ones. Whiskers are longer. Reduction in the severity of the twitching, more of a small jolt than a complete body shock like before. I'm on day 3 of Romet. It took a week to get here so that was a bit frustrating. The company who makes romet medicated food (MedFinn) didn't have a small pellet version with less food that would be cheaper, so I emailed them about it. Surprisingly, they responded and told me they have such a thing in the works that will be cheaper and more accessible. They are just starting out so they don't have many retail locations to sell at yet. He sold me a bag directly and was overall very nice and helpful.

 

[Delapool]

Please help: Sterbai Cory paralysis, twitching, "seizures"

Fingers crossed.

Do they sell online or would you have a link?

Edit - plus one on xmass. Someone gave us a 1000 piece puzzle which kept the kids interested all of 5mins I think.

 

[Alyssum]

He only sells on one or two websites right now. He has a search page to see if things are selling in your area, but all the stores I called did not carry medfinn.

MedFinn Medicated Fish Food|Medications from DrsFosterSmith.com

It was a bit too expensive with shipping and also way more than I'd ever need, so I messaged the company directly. Here's the website:

Aquafinn - Products - MedFinn Medicated Feed

His shipping was still too expensive because he used fedex and used a box, but I had no choice. He could have used priority mail for $5 in an envelope. But I digress.

I didn't think kids would care much for puzzles

 

[Delapool]

He only sells on one or two websites right now. He has a search page to see if things are selling in your area, but all the stores I called did not carry medfinn.

MedFinn Medicated Fish Food|Medications from DrsFosterSmith.com

It was a bit too expensive with shipping and also way more than I'd ever need, so I messaged the company directly. Here's the website:

Aquafinn - Products - MedFinn Medicated Feed

His shipping was still too expensive because he used fedex and used a box, but I had no choice. He could have used priority mail for $5 in an envelope. But I digress.

I didn't think kids would care much for puzzles

Many thanks for the links. I see what you mean on large size!

No, the kids tried but a 100 piece not a 1000 piece would of been better Even then I think you are 100% right.

 

[Delapool]

Out of interest I have contacted to see if they will shop to Australia.

 

[Alyssum]

It'd definitely be a nice medicine to have around. I imagine it'd be pretty expensive on shipping, but if possible I would press him to ship it in a bubble mailer because he used a shipping option that was unnecessarily expensive in my case. It was a small bag of food put into a big box with peanuts in it. The two healthier cories are active and swimming around the tank, but twitchy continues to seclude herself. She'll participate here and there. Overall her appearance is better, not as much redness and weaker twitches, but she is probably not feeling well. Hope I continue to see improvements.

When I was young my mom was always trying to get me to do puzzles, but it never sounded all too appealing.

 

[Delapool]

It'd definitely be a nice medicine to have around. I imagine it'd be pretty expensive on shipping, but if possible I would press him to ship it in a bubble mailer because he used a shipping option that was unnecessarily expensive in my case. It was a small bag of food put into a big box with peanuts in it. The two healthier cories are active and swimming around the tank, but twitchy continues to seclude herself. She'll participate here and there. Overall her appearance is better, not as much redness and weaker twitches, but she is probably not feeling well. Hope I continue to see improvements.

When I was young my mom was always trying to get me to do puzzles, but it never sounded all too appealing.

Many thanks - sent a pm just asking about cost, volume, etc. The guy has emailed back but amazingly it appears to be available in Australia online. So thinking. I've got kanaplax and furan 2 which don't expire for a few years. On the other hand it's tempting to see if I can order it into Western Australia if the cost isn't great.

 

[Alyssum]

Update time. So they've been on romet for about a week now. I have not seen much improvement, if at all. They are about the same as they were before treatment. There is still tail curling, twitching, brief losses of balance and redness. I don't know if whatever they have/had has caused permanent damage and they will never recover from this. I will continue the treatment and perhaps restart the metro and prazipro because there really isn't much else I can do. The weird thing is they keep trying to mate with each other, even in this severely ill state. The healthier ones keep harassing the sick one, but she is completely uninterested most of the time for obvious reasons.

Video: http://v8.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=1ze8i74&s=8

 

[Delapool]

Bad news - will see if it plays on desktop later on but assume more of the same. Have you tried any other forums? Imo I'd include metro in dosing schedule.

Just sorting out shipping here. I'll ask him if there are any med comparability issues.

 

[Delapool]

Yet to hear back on postage email but did come across this below. It sounds similar to ormetoprim in romet. Sounds like any internal anaerobic infection may be resistant to it.



TRIMETHOPRIM:

Trimethoprim is a bacteriostatic antibiotic effective for many aerobic gram negative bacterium including Pseudomonas & Aeromonas. Since Pseudomonas & Aeromonas are common causes of opportunistic fin rot in fish (assuming the causes of this opportunity are negated), this drug or a combination that includes it may be a good alternative treatment.
In fact when combined with some Sulfa based medications, it produced a synergism or addition in 85% (similar to how Kanamycin and Nitrofurazone produce a synergism that treats Columnaris and Aeromonas that when treated alone, often results in failure).

However Trimethoprim has no proven effectiveness for anaerobic infections, so if the causes of an Aeromonas is anaerobic (which most are), then this or antibiotics containing Trimethoprim would be a poor choice.

USE: A good alternative to 100% sulfas, although a more harsh antibiotic toward nitrifying bacteria.
Especially useful for fin and tail rot.

Contraindications

*Can be very harsh to nitrifying bacteria in an aquarium, do not over dose and use only in well established aquariums.
*Can cause Thrombocytopenia (lowering of blood platelets), so this is a poor choice if fish have large wounds or are suffering from septicemia. A better choice then would be a pure Sulfa product or other medication combination.

Trimethoprim is found in:
*Mardel Maracyn Plus (contains Sulfamethazine and Trimethoprim)
NOT currently available

Reference:
Combined Activity of Sulfamethoxazole, Trimethoprim,

 

[Alyssum]

Argh, well that is bad news. I had no idea. I asked him about using metro with romet when I first got the medicine and he said it was okay, but only if I can get both dosages correctly into their system. It'd be hard to feed them both romet and metronidazole at the same time, since my romet food is already premade, unless I somehow soaked the food with metro. I'm dosing it into the tank now, but I don't know what good it will do. I'm running out of metro, so I am unsure if I should get a metro feed instead or buy something bigger. Seachem Metronidazole is this tiny tube that is filled about 1/4 of the way for $9. If romet is not effective I am unsure what else I can do. I don't know what other antibiotics are out there that are viable. I fear it may be too late and this is a futile fight. I still want to try if there are some viable ideas, but I really had my hopes set on this drug.

To answer your question, yes I have tried about 3 other forums including planet catfish and fishforums.net.

On fishforums.net they are telling me they don't look that bad and I shouldn't treat them anymore. I admit they don't look "that bad" in just photos, they are mostly normal, but the crook in the spine is quite severe at times.

 

[Alyssum]

Haven't treated since my last post. Corys still stable. I was told on another forum that they look okay for the most part. Still tail curling and twitching persist on the one. Don't think that will go away. I'm going to wait a couple weeks then add one more cory to see if it gets "infected" by whatever they had. If it checks out, I'm going to buy a 30-40 gal and transfer them. I will also add more corys. I hope this works out.

 

[Delapool]

Good news that stable.

The package of meds arrived yesterday.

I asked on combining and email back said no, should treat gram negative internal/external.