Q's about odd Bala Shark / Ghost Shrimp behavior & new T

[Epicenter]

Hello! I'm new here, obviously. I just set up a 10-gallon tank in my dorm room that I'm growing quite fond of. I haven't put in all the fish I intend to, but I figure it's best to add them gradually.

The tank itself:
- 10 Gallon 'Marineland' with hinged lid and 2 (25w?) incandescent bulbs
- Tetra Filter, labelled something like OT-45, it's the 'regular' variety that hangs off the back of the tank and has no BIO-wheel.
- Small air pump the size of the palm of my hand, and one hose into the corner of the tank. Need to get an air stone, it just spits out some big bubbles really, the flexible air 'wand' I got didn't work correctly so I removed it.
- 50w Heater with a 26C thermostat

Here is a little video tour of my tank/fish at feeding time. The shrimp are being less excitable than usual here.
http://www.epicgaming.us/fysh/newtank1.mov

And some photos from when I first set up the tank the day before yesterday:
http://www.epicgaming.us/fysh/fish1.jpg
http://www.epicgaming.us/fysh/fish2.jpg
http://www.epicgaming.us/fysh/shrimp1.jpg
http://www.epicgaming.us/fysh/shrimp2.jpg





The water's from tap, treated with 'Aquasafe' a bit of aquarium salt too. The heater does its job nicely and holds the water to almost exactly 26C (which is about 79F, mercury thermometer indicates 78F.) One end of the tank has some plastic rocks in an archway formation, and the other end has a large fake hollow 'mountain' with a lot of places for fish/shrimp to hide.

The fish are 4 Bala Sharks and 4 guppies (2 male, 2 female), much like a tank I had set up a year ago, although that was more like 6 gallons, not 10. I read, after I bought them, that Bala Sharks get extremely large, though my old Balas never grew at all from the day I bought them-- they seem pretty cheerful in there at any rate. All 4 of them cluster together for the majority of the time, and occasionally one or two will get distracted and wander off.

Some odd behaviors however: They like to cluster at one end of the tank, away from the 'mountain' near the top of the tank, where there's basically nothing but the thermometer. They'll stare at the side and put their faces up to the glass, and swim up and down over and over again. Are they mistaking their reflection for other Balas and trying to school with them? They'll keep this up for over 15 minutes at times 'kissing' the glass. From where I'm sitting, they have a reflection that is pretty much like a mirror. They also seem to drift to a nearly vertical position when they 'sleep' (it's more like they go into power-saving mode than sleep.. heh) then suddenly snap back to horizontal as if they realize how silly they look.

They will also occasionally dash around the tank without provocation-- one of the Balas will, for no discernable reason at all, launch at approximately 900 meters per second in nearly a complete loop around the tank, sometimes kicking up gravel in his frenzy. Then as quickly as the hurry started, he's done, and goes to rejoin the school. (?!!)

The Guppies behave about as expected, schooling mostly around the top of the tank. It seems they never stop being hungry, and if they're fed, the guppies are always the first ones on the scene, even if they've eaten four times that day. The Balas seem oblivious to chow-time and just find the food later on the gravel, or as it's falling. (The food is TetraColor tropcial fish flakes, and I put in a bit of Betta food on occasion that I just have lying around, since I know the Balas are omnivorous-- and this stuff probably consists predominantly of bloodworms.)

The Ghost Shrimp display behavior I would expect from .. well, shrimp. They seem to act communal in a lot of ways. They all cluster at the top of the 'mountain'. If less than 2-3 shrimp are up there, it's guaranteed the rest are scaling the walls or inside the mountain. I've never heard of schooling behavior among Shrimp. I call the mountain 'Mt. Doom' sometimes because it extends a good 3 inches out of the water-- they chill right under the water's surface. When fed, they will launch themselves off the top of the mountain, grab food and land. It's like they know that's where the food is going to be and want first dibs-- unexpectedly intelligent behavior. If a shrimp is ever spotted away from the mountain, he's grabbing food and climbing back up right away, or doggy-paddling his way up. (The guppies always appear deeply confused when the shrimp paddle by.)

Another couple questions I had partain to planting, and general water maintenance. The tank's only been set up for a couple days but the water's already quite cloudy. This is a fairly powerful filter, made for tanks considerably larger than mine, and the filter's not really showing signs of being dirty. But, the water's gone rather cloudy. Is this normal behavior after the introduction of new fish and should it settle down on its own, or should I be doing a half-water change with some more water (treated with aquasafe and heated to 26C/79F), or look for a additive to help? Should I be concerned about my pH level at this point?

I'd like to add some plants, as #1, I hate the look of plastic plants, #2, they don't offer any real places for guppy fry to hide if the guppies do reproduce (my previous ones did, they had an ungodly mess of babies in 1 month, most if not all of which survived), #3 I'm sure they are good for the CO2 levels and pH of the water. But I am unsure what size and shape, and how many, to be opting for. A local shop sells small potted plants and bulbs that have already grown appreciable.. leafery, for lack of a better term. There's tall leafy ones, big wide ones with extremely fine branches, and tiny little 'shrubs'. Are there special considerations or is it about as simple as burying planting them in the gravel? Are the incandescent bulbs OK for their growth/photosynthesis? The bulbs are on about 12 hours a day.

One last question. I'm looking to add a few more fish, but I'm not positive which variety is ideal. This room's temperature can be erratic and in summer, there is no AC, so it will be in the mid 80s in this room, maybe high 80s. I considered Neon Tetras but their maximum temperature tolerance is around the high 70s. Cardinal Tetras prefer high 70s to Mid 80s apparently, but Bala Sharks are prone to eat tetras apparently, and the Cardinals are a third the size of the Neons! I am also considering Zebra Danios, as they seem to be able to handle pretty warm water. I know the Bala Sharks will tolerate large changes in temperature/pH and this is part of why I chose them.

Thanks for reading, and thanks for any tips!

 

[Mosaic]

Wow, ok. There's a lot to address here. You are in the right place. Welcome!

1. Your balas behave this way because they are sleek, open water swimmers. They swim at the empty end of the tank because their in their natural habitat and swimming level, there are no obstacles. They are going to get way, way too big for your tank and are probably stressing out the guppies. I would return them. If your last ones never grew, it was because they were stunted. These fish can get over 8" when healthy, and require even more open swimming space than most people can provide.

2. Do not add more fish unless you move the balas out. A 10g tank does not have a large capacity, and I think you've already exceeded it, especially with the balas. The guppies are fine, and adding a few more females would be great. They do well when the females outnumber the males. If you've got a guppy harem, it'd say you are well-stocked, because as you know, they quickly multiply.

3. Read the stickies here on cycling, which will explain your water problems. The cloudy water is due to a bacterial bloom. Cut back on your feeding and check your ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates with a test kit, and post them here so we can help. You will need to be doing water changes for a little bit until your parameters are stable.

4. You will need flourescent bulbs to work with plants. Java fern is perhaps the only exception. Plants are a whole other realm of frustration unless you do your research, but that's why we're here. Gravel could be ok if it's smaller than pea-size (again, java fern is an exception here). They do help with overall water quality, though they don't affect ph. If you've got huge ph swings, there's something else going on that we need to figure out.

 

[Epicenter]

Returning the Balas will probably be difficult. I do not speak the local language (Japanese) and this is more than a little confusing of a store (to give you an idea, they sell aquariums, fish, hamsters, lizards, and they make KEYS and sell LOCKS. This is as confusing to me as I gather it is to you.) I'd almost rather bring the Balas in a drink cup and pour it back into their tank when they aren't looking and run than try to explain to them the concept of returning them. Also I really do like the little bastards.. probably my absolute favorite fish variety. 20 gallons is the absolute limit allowed for my area of residence, and would probably be unmanageable anyway. (also I hear 20 gallons isn't enough. Some people say 100 gallons, which strikes me as a little out-there, the store had them in about a 10-gallon. I've actually NEVER seen a Bala shark larger or smaller than the size they are now, anywhere they are sold, stateside or here in Japan.)

What is probably my best route there?

I think I can swap out the incandescents for flourescent bulbs. Correct me if I am wrong here. I'll check what the store has to offer.

For the water bit, I'll pick up a pH test kit tomorrow and give it a check, and also do a 25-50% water change.

 

[Mosaic]

You do not see them any bigger because few people can keep them properly. Also, in a store, their accomodations are tempoarary. They only need to stay in a 10g for a short time until someone buys them. 125 is my minimum for a bala, so 100 is not out there. They are just not good aquarium fish and I wish they weren't so easily available. I really don't know how to help you there.

I don't know if you can put flourescents in an incandescent fixture. Someone else will have to answer that.

Get a master test kit that does at least ph, ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Your ph is the least of your worries right now and is the least likely to hurt or kill your fish. For ph, stability is more important than an exact number, so as long as your readings are consistent you're ok. Right now, pay big attention to ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates.
Fish excrete ammonia, which is toxic, but bacteria will grow in the tank to convert it into nitrites (also toxic, but slightly less), then to nitrates (harmless at low levels, and good for plants too). But it takes time for the bacteria to get established, and until they do, your fish are in danger. A test kit will tell when your cycle is over and you have a healthy tank, so check back with those results!

 

[rkilling1]

you can purchase screw-in CF light bulbs that will take the place of the incandescent light bulb. And like Mosaic has said, those bala sharks NEED a much larger tank. I had 3 in my 75 gallon tank that I HAD to remove, because they grew to large.

 

[zacusmaximus]

You can find screw-in compact fluorescent replacements for incandescent bulbs. Two 20watt CFL's over a 10 gallon actually makes for a decent >$20 lighting upgrade for the cheap-o starter kit aquariums.

 

[Epicenter]

So basically, am I supposed to show them a picture to get my point across and absolutely get them back to the store or they will grow to the size of grapefruits? Or are they like Goldfish that will grow to a full size that is as long as your forearm if kept in a 100+ gallon tank but in a smaller one, just doesn't grow beyond a few inches?

If I do absolutely need to return them, maybe this will get the idea across.

 

[hc8719]

Or are they like Goldfish that will grow to a full size that is as long as your forearm if kept in a 100+ gallon tank but in a smaller one, just doesn't grow beyond a few inches?

haha, let me tell you something about goldfish, even if kept in a 2 gallon tank, they will outgrow it, and when i moved mine to a 10 gallon, they grew more than several inches, and when put in a 20 gallon, they grew more...

a fishe's size may be stunted, but no fish will ever grow to the size of their surroundings. would you think a great white would stop growing because it was in a 50 gallon tank and had to adjust it's size

 

[Epicenter]

Well I kept goldfish for close to 2 years and they never got much bigger than the length of my pinky. When put in a 20 gallon they got much bigger, but ONLY then. Basically I want to know if having them in a 10 gallon is going to make the fish unhappy, in which case I'd rather return them, unless whoever buys them is just going to end up doing the same thing anyway. If they'll lead good enough lives in this tank I'd rather keep them here where I know they're well cared for.

 

[fish 'n' fries]

The behaviors your describing doesn't make them sound very happy...sorry. They're fish that like to swim a lot in open waters (as Mosaic said so nicely) and that 10, unfortunately, just isn't giving them the space they need/want. If I were you...I'd return them.

 

[JustOneMore20]

http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquariumfish/detail.aspx?aid=9541&cid=3787&search=
An article in a Fish Magazine about Bala Sharks and 10 gallon tanks.

Fish do not grow to the size of their tank, they are stunted which causes their internal organs to keep growing, but the outside of their body stops growing. This causes increased suceptibility to infection, decreased lifespan, and not to mention, has to be very uncomfortable for fish. That is the reason your fish have never reached their potential size. Its a terrible thing that happens to them and you shouldn't do that to fish.

Bala sharks can reach 10-12 inches or even more and should. Therefore they need long tanks (6 foot atleast) and big tanks. They are very active fish who like to school.

You should take your balas back to the place and get 2-3 fish that will stay small enough for a 10g. A 20g will not work for balas.

Although you see goldfish advertised on 2 and 5 gallon tanks, some can reach 12 inches....yes a 12 inch goldfish. Most don't though because they are put in tanks that are too small for them. That is why some goldfish belong in ponds where they will not be stunted. (This is one of my pet peeves...)

 

[Mosaic]

I understand your frustration, Epicenter. But I do like your illustration.

 

[Pleco]

Returns in general are a bit tricky in Japan. Most places arent too customer service friendly as they are in the US. If you would like i can write up a note of sorts for you to add to that illustration you created.

-Pleco

 

[Epicenter]

Returns in general are a bit tricky in Japan. Most places arent too customer service friendly as they are in the US. If you would like i can write up a note of sorts for you to add to that illustration you created.

-Pleco

That would be very helpful-- thank you. I don't really care if I get my money back, by the way. They were not that expensive.

 

[Epicenter]

One of the store employees spoke enough English for me to ask him about the Balas, and he said since they were still small I could give them back. At my rquest he even gave me a sufficiently large plastic bag and rubber bands to seal it. I'll probably take out about a half gallon of water (what the bag will reasonably fit) from the tank, add the Balas with a net, pump the bag full of air (my aquarium pump should be able to manage to oxygenate it well enough I imagine, and it's probably not even necessary for such a quick trip). I'll bring them over to the store probably tomorrow. Should be pretty straightforward although it's my first time bringing fish BACK.

I am curious, however, as to what I should replace them with. I might start a different thread for this topic.

 

[rkilling1]

(also I hear 20 gallons isn't enough. Some people say 100 gallons, which strikes me as a little out-there, the store had them in about a 10-gallon. I've actually NEVER seen a Bala shark larger or smaller than the size they are now, anywhere they are sold, stateside or here in Japan.)

here ya go. This is my MEDIUM sized Bala shark next to a bala shark about the size of the ones that you have. They are great looking fish. His was about 6 months old in that pic.

 

[Mosaic]

I'm glad you could get it worked out. It'll be much better for you in the long run.
I say get a few more female guppies. A small group of danios would be good too, as you brought up.

 

[Epicenter]

I added 5 Zebra Danios today, and 2 female guppies. The females now outnumber the males 2:1. They seem to be doing well, the males are chasing the females around quite obviously, so I'd agree they seem to be more in their element at this point.

The Balas are going back tomorrow after work. I will probably also add some more ghost shrimp to clean the bottom of the tank, and I am considering some snails to prevent any sort of major algae issues down the road. Or perhaps an algae eater. The trick might be finding one that doesn't terrify my other fish (the previous one I had was hyperactive as hell.)

here ya go. This is my MEDIUM sized Bala shark next to a bala shark about the size of the ones that you have. They are great looking fish. His was about 6 months old in that pic.

HOLY HELL

 

[Mosaic]

Did you get a test kit? You need to watch your water quality with that many fish in there.

I would probably not add any more fish. The only kind that would fit comfortably in a 10g is an oto cat, which stay under 2 inches. A mystery snail would both clean the bottom of the tank and keep algae down. Algae can be controlled pretty well by limiting lighting to 8 or so hours a day and by not overfeeding, btw. If you do that, you may find you don't need an algae eater.

 

[Epicenter]

I['m picking out some plants today so I do anticipate this will increase the likelihood of algae formation.

As for the water testing, yes, I did get a test kit. I tested the day I mentioned, looked OK but water was a little hard and the water was slightly basic (~8-8.5 pH) and alkalinity was a tiny bit high. I did a 50% water change with some AquaSafe-treated water, and pH is now only a little over 7-7.5, and Alkalinity looks good. Water is somewhere around Soft now too.

I hope I can find flourescent bulbs at the store. The first one I tried had only Incandescent ones. Plants won't grow at all with those? I'll bring one of my bulbs in and see if they can point one out that'll work...

Thanks for the Oto catfish idea, I'll see if they have them.