Questions about new goldfish?

[sorsha]

Hello, I'm new to the forums I joined specifically to ask a few questions about this new fantail goldfish that I purchased recently. I do hope this is the right category, as she is not ill.

My questions all pertain to her colour specifically. I bought her because I found her colour very odd and interesting, even though she was a little shrimpy. Through research I learned that most calicos are classified as nacreous scales. Is my fish, Aeon, nacreous or matte? I believe she is at least mostly matte, maybe only having metallic scales on her small orange marking?

After a bit more research, I discovered that a lot of people believe matte goldfish are "weaker" and "harder to grow to size"? She also has button eyes, and I read on a few different sites that button eyed goldfish may "go heavy" around a year old and suffer from buoyancy issues? Any input on those claims would be really helpful, as I am concerned for her future health! Also I have no clue what her/his gender is right now but I call her a her XD

So many questions, ha. Attaching some pictures.

 

[jlk]

Hello, I'm new to the forums I joined specifically to ask a few questions about this new fantail goldfish that I purchased recently. I do hope this is the right category, as she is not ill.

My questions all pertain to her colour specifically. I bought her because I found her colour very odd and interesting, even though she was a little shrimpy. Through research I learned that most calicos are classified as nacreous scales. Is my fish, Aeon, nacreous or matte? I believe she is at least mostly matte, maybe only having metallic scales on her small orange marking?

After a bit more research, I discovered that a lot of people believe matte goldfish are "weaker" and "harder to grow to size"? She also has button eyes, and I read on a few different sites that button eyed goldfish may "go heavy" around a year old and suffer from buoyancy issues? Any input on those claims would be really helpful, as I am concerned for her future health! Also I have no clue what her/his gender is right now but I call her a her XD

So many questions, ha. Attaching some pictures.

Welcome to AA!!!

I will try to help a bit! From your pics, your fish appears to have matte scales. It's not unusual to have nacreous mixed in with matte though. I can not see the orange area clearly to be able to tell. He or she is quite young and I would not classify her as a calico as I expect she will be completely white in the future. She's just in a transitional stage of coloring.

Whether there's any correlation between scale type and growth, I am unaware of it. Genetics and breeding are half the picture in determining possible future growth and the other half is care. An excellent diet, constant big water changes and copious amounts of water are huge factors in potential growth.

The button eyes and association with buoyancy issues is another theory I have to question as I do not expect her to keep her black eyes. She may but even if she did, I do not see how eye color relates to buoyancy issues in any breed of goldfish. I am curious where you read this and a scientific explanation for such a cause and effect?

In respect to gender, only time will tell! Goldfish are quite difficult to gender ID as juveniles but are much easier as older fish that are sexually mature. Hope this helps a bit! Feel free to ask any questions!

 

[Leomorales]

I have the very same fish bro like his twin


Elmer morales

 

[sorsha]

Welcome to AA!!!

I will try to help a bit! From your pics, your fish appears to have matte scales. It's not unusual to have nacreous mixed in with matte though. I can not see the orange area clearly to be able to tell. He or she is quite young and I would not classify her as a calico as I expect she will be completely white in the future. She's just in a transitional stage of coloring.

Whether there's any correlation between scale type and growth, I am unaware of it. Genetics and breeding are half the picture in determining possible future growth and the other half is care. An excellent diet, constant big water changes and copious amounts of water are huge factors in potential growth.

The button eyes and association with buoyancy issues is another theory I have to question as I do not expect her to keep her black eyes. She may but even if she did, I do not see how eye color relates to buoyancy issues in any breed of goldfish. I am curious where you read this and a scientific explanation for such a cause and effect?

In respect to gender, only time will tell! Goldfish are quite difficult to gender ID as juveniles but are much easier as older fish that are sexually mature. Hope this helps a bit! Feel free to ask any questions!

Hello and thank you for the welcome!! Also, thank you for moving my thread! I did not see this section

Yes, I assumed she was pretty young- she had an adjustment period to the current in the tank Really got thrown around the first couple of days, I tried to lessen it. How old would you guess she is?

I'm not sure if I am able to post links, but they weren't really backed by any studies which is why I am inquiring. All I could find really on matte goldfish mostly came from culling guides saying they are weaker and often culled, and a couple of forum posts talking about those guides. I will post some quotes at the end, so they can always be googled for the full articles.

The button eye question is the same thing- articles but no real research, but also very little information comes up when I search "button eye". There's one article on picking healthy goldfish that I will quote below, and then a forum post asking about a similar claim. Many members said that they had button eyes with buoyancy issues and they wonder if that's why.

As to her keeping the eyes or not, I thought matte goldfish only had black eyes? It's hard to get photos of her- she just kind of glows. All I can say about the orange patch is that it's very vibrant compared to the rest of her, and it has some shine to parts of it which is what makes me think she's not fully matte.

Quotes in question:

"Real matte goldfish are for experienced fanciers only and are usually not available commercially." - Page 92 of "The Everything Tropical Fish Book" viewable online.

"The Matte scale group are fish with transparent scales. The usual matte is called a pinkie matte fish. It is virtually transparent with no reflective scales. With almost no guanine in the scale this has been linked to a weak fish very difficult to grow to size. The matte scale is produced from a nacreous spawn and used to cross to its sibling metallic to produce 100% nacreous offspring. The matte fish carries all the colors genetically but USUALLY expresses none of them. The matte is homozygous for its trait. The use of matte to metallic for reproducing nacreous is not understood or in use by the American farms. It is difficult to maintain mattes to adult hood for this cross" - Goldfish Culling - Scale Types By Dave Mandley

"Fish that have “button eyes”, or eyes that are completely black, sometimes experience buoyancy issues by the time they are roughly a year old. They tend to “go heavy” and sink to the bottom when not swimming. The problem is genetic and euthanasia is the only solution, as eventually they can’t get to the food source. Therefore, it is a good idea to be aware of this fact if a fish keeper decides to purchase one." - Choosing Healthy Goldfish from Puregoldfish

@Leomorales- I'd love to see a picture of this twin!

 

[pip walters]

The fish is bred from calico - two calico bred together will produce 25% fish that are singly pink in colour, but some will have some pigment as your fish shows. The pinks and these variations are often sold as 'ghost'. Years ago, they would be culled in favour of the better coloured calico, but now, there is a market for everything

I have never heard of black eyed fish being prone to 'going heavy', but it is possible there is a genetic link. There could also be a genetic link to scale type and growth - it is certainly the case in Common Carp.

 

[sorsha]

Thank you for the information Ah, "ghosts". There's actually someone I watch on youtube with bristol shubunkins that she calls "ghosts".

I'm glad she wasn't culled XD I quite like her colouration.

Well said. I suppose with only anecdotal evidence of these links, I'll just have to wait and see myself how she does. Thank you for the reply

 

[pip walters]

You are most welcome

Yes, shubunkins are the single tailed version of calico fancies and the same ratio occurs at breeding - 50% 'calico' coloured fish like the parents, 25% pinks and 25% bronze (reverting to the natural brown colour of the wild genotype)

 

[Armadillo Dream]

Thank you for the information Ah, "ghosts". There's actually someone I watch on youtube with bristol shubunkins that she calls "ghosts".

I'm glad she wasn't culled XD I quite like her colouration.

Well said. I suppose with only anecdotal evidence of these links, I'll just have to wait and see myself how she does. Thank you for the reply

Are you talking about Solid Gold??? I watch her!! I believe they are called Ghost Bristols x


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