Sand?

[Mr. Limpet]

I like pool filter sand too and I doubt it would ever compact. When I first saw it I thought it almost looked more like gravel than sand, but when it gets wet the grains appear much smaller. Just keep it under 2 inches of substrate and stir it around every now and then and there shouldn't be anything to worry about.

Here's a post from a different site I found informative. I still need to do some more homework on silicates though.
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pool filter sand warning!! - MonsterFishKeepers.com

"Quartz is the exact same thing as silica...Pure quartz is silicon oxide (SiO2). Just tell me what you think the main ingredient in silica sand is.

Seriously, I am going to end this myth. You aren't the only one who thinks this way too, so don't feel like I calling you out specifically or anything ok?

By Rob Toonen. Posted to Reefkeepers emailing list, Saturday 18th September 1999.
I can't remember who said it anymore, and I don't really want to single anyone out, but the statement that buying cheap sand that contains quartz will ruin your tank is plain-and-simple bunk. I'm not sure where the idea that silica sand is dangerous to a reef tank came from, but typically silica sand is 99.0-99.9% SiO2 (depending on the source and grade), which is about the exact same chemical composition as the glass of your aquarium. If the addition of pure quartz sand is somehow dangerous to keeping a reef tank, we'd better all get our animals out of glass aquaria...
Quartz (SiO2) is considered "totally insoluble" in water according to the US MSDS, and is also nontoxic (although inhalation of silica has many well-documented health risks for humans -- I'll explain at the bottom if anyone cares). Yes, water is a "universal solvent" and yes, everything (including the silicone) dissolves slightly into the water over time, but the amount of dissolution is so low that it is impossible for it to make a difference to your aquarium. There certainly are highly soluble forms of silica that will increase the level of dissolved silicates in the water (such as aluminosilicate) and are likely to cause problems, but quartz sand (SiO2) is not one of them.
The fact is that quartz sand (and the walls of our aquarium and even the silicone rubber which is the most soluble of the lot) do not dissolve enough in seawater to be measurable If silica sand contributed in any significant way to dissolved silica, then you would expect there to be big differences in the silica concentration around sandy beaches and on calcareous beaches (such as the red "sand" of Bermuda, which is composed mainly of calcareous foraminiferan skeletons) but there are not -- although calcium concentrations do vary significantly, the silica concentration in either location is about the same (roughly 2 ppm everywhere other than adjacent to the mouths of rivers where FW inputs increase the level). That suggests to me that quartz sand doesn't make much of a difference to the silicate concentration of seawater. Silica gets into water by being in a more soluble form than SiO2 (such as aluminosilicate), and the most common source of contaminating silicate in aquaria is the freshwater used for top-off or mixing. In fact, normal river runoff entering the sea has 2-5 times the amount of dissolved silica present in the surrounding seawater (which as I just said is higher than the norm), and researchers studying oceanic silica cycles consider quartz sediments a "dead end" for silica (so little is released it does not contribute to the global silica budgets of the ocean -- if it doesn't make a difference on a global scale with all the silica sand in the ocean, how much difference do you think it can make in our tanks?). The major input of silicate into seawater remains freshwater runoff into the sea, not the minuscule (and unmeasurable) amount of dissolution from the *enormous* amount of quartz in the sea...
In fact, that same quartz sand that people are recommending against is what was smolted and fused to form the glass walls of your aquarium... I don't know exactly what (if any) chemical changes are involved with the smolting process, but according to the glassblower for the Department of Chemistry, it's just melted and reformed into the appropriate shape -- it's not really doing anything to the sand other than burning off any organic contamination in the sand (the melting point is about 3110F). Even after being formed, glass is still SiO2, so there isn't any reason to suspect that there are important chemical changes occurring. Also, there should be no changes occurring as the sand passes through the guts of the animals in the tank -- is no noticeable degradation of the SiO2 spicules from ingested sponge tissue as that passes through the guts of animals (such as angelfish, sea stars & urchins) adapted to eating sponges, and that's where you'd expect some effect of digestion if any was going to occur. Given that, it's pretty hard to argue that using quartz sand is bad when the glass box that you're putting it into is made of the same stuff.

This guy is arguing the chemical copmosition of silica sand (aka quartz) and its dangers. But the whole reason that silica sand would be dangerous for rays is because its somewhat abrasive. Like he said during the smolting process the silicon oxide is formed into shape. Thats the part that scares ray keepers, the shape. Quartz and silica are the exact same thing, what you need to look out for is if its razor sharp.

Whats even funnier is pool filter sand is burning off the contaminants, making it even more safe.

The whole reason I say this is because people told me to get quartz sand instead of silica, and I just pictured my little quartz crystal that I got when I was really young and thought it looked sharp, clear, and a lot like glass. I figured that they woudl have to have the same makeup. I first figured maybe quartz was harder, like a carbon compound, such as diamond. But I found that it was made out of silicone. I just thought well thats basically glass. Since Quartz isn't really as valuable as diamond (I wish, I have a huge rock of quartz, I could have a public aquarium for the price of its equivalent size in diamonds ) I just figured its probably similar to what glass is made of and I know silica sand is just glass (also the name silica was a dead giveaway for me as well being only 2 letters of from silicon) so I figured sand is made of all sorts of composites in the wild, and as long as they don't have sharp enough edges to cut the ray then it shouldn't pose a threat. "

Good info to have on hand, but all the info relates to SW and keeping rays. Would that be the same issue with FW?

 

[giggalz]

wow there is a lot of controversy regarding different types of sands lol

 

[subliminalanarchy]

Good info to have on hand, but all the info relates to SW and keeping rays. Would that be the same issue with FW?

lmao I don't even know anymore. I've been reading too much it's all blurring together

 

[giggalz]

If done correctly, play sand won't cloud the tank at all. My avatar is a picture of my tank taken instantly after adding water to it.

As for the gravel/sand substrate - If the sand has a smaller granule size, it will most likely eventually sift it's way down to the bottom. You will then be left with sand on the bottom and gravel on top.

wasnt it you that did the plate trick ..i believe it was from looking at your avatar...you used a plate to not stir up the sound..thought that was genius...

 

[giggalz]

lmao I don't even know anymore. I've been reading too much it's all blurring together

lol same here..

 

[Viper]

wasnt it you that did the plate trick ..i believe it was from looking at your avatar...you used a plate to not stir up the sound..thought that was genius...

lol you are correct that that is a plate in my avatar, but it definitely wasn't my idea. Can't really say where I got it from, but it was definitely someone on here. The plate really does do a great job of keeping the cloudiness to a minimum.

 

[giggalz]

lol you are correct that that is a plate in my avatar, but it definitely wasn't my idea. Can't really say where I got it from, but it was definitely someone on here. The plate really does do a great job of keeping the cloudiness to a minimum.

i thought so..thats okay on the idea part..you tested it out and proved that it works..you're just spreading the word around..

i'm not sure how i'm gonna deal with filling the tank with water..as it currently sits without water or sand..i plan on getting the sand tomorrow..cleaning then putting it in the tank..and its so talk i may just start pouring buckets in..lol....

 

[Shadowraven]

I don't even have any idea were someone would get the idea that they were any different, or dangerous. Like the article says sand=quartz=glass. They are all one and the same.

Pure silica sand means is sand without the impurities, i.e. pure quartz. Not sure what brought this up in the first place...

@fort: I read on that on another web site. They used some black sandblasting sand and said that it looks awesome. It can come pretty coarse as well.

I wish I could find a picture of a tank with some in it. This is what some looks like.

I think I might like to try some of that.

As for the gravel/sand substrate - If the sand has a smaller granule size, it will most likely eventually sift it's way down to the bottom. You will then be left with sand on the bottom and gravel on top.

It's what I have in my tank right now. I'm using a coarse sand with blue gravel. It looks pretty cool. The sand hasn't settled out so far.

 

[giggalz]

I don't even have any idea were someone would get the idea that they were any different, or dangerous. Like the article says sand=quartz=glass. They are all one and the same.

i got the impression from reading it..that they felt the sand was to blame..maybe without really checking everything in the tank..and then posted...then ate their post beings everything below it was like you're wrong the sand is fine..which i cant blame the poster..considering theres so much info about this..but they sometimes contradict the other...

i could be wrong..i just got the feeling they were wanting to blame the sand..

 

[Shadowraven]

i got the impression from reading it..that they felt the sand was to blame..maybe without really checking everything in the tank..and then posted...then ate their post beings everything below it was like you're wrong the sand is fine..which i cant blame the poster..considering theres so much info about this..but they sometimes contradict the other...

i could be wrong..i just got the feeling they were wanting to blame the sand..

No worries. you're good!

 

[subliminalanarchy]

Okay now that I'm somewhat conscious of my surroundings I just want to clarify the point of my earlier posts.

From what I've been able to make out from what I've read:
1) PFS does not add silicates to the water so the idea that this fuels algae is a myth.
2) PFS does not compact and form anaerobic pockets any more than other sands. If anything, probably alot less.

Sorry I was too lazy to keep that earlier quote on topic. At least you all had fun reading it right?

 

[beepboop]

I got sand from my LFS, because I wanted black. I mixed it with black gravel. It's also more likely to be safe for species that are bottom feeders (no sharp edges to the sand). But, it all depends on the type of fish you'll have, how much you're willing to spend, whether or not you care about color, and how much you want to clean it before putting it in a tank. Stuff from a fish store will just need a rinse. Sand for a sandbox will need boiling and a lot of washing and rinsing. I'm not sure about pool filter sand. I don't have any experience with it.

 

[Shadowraven]

Okay now that I'm somewhat conscious of my surroundings I just want to clarify the point of my earlier posts.

From what I've been able to make out from what I've read:
1) PFS does not add silicates to the water so the idea that this fuels algae is a myth.
2) PFS does not compact and form anaerobic pockets any more than other sands. If anything, probably alot less.

Sorry I was too lazy to keep that earlier quote on topic. At least you all had fun reading it right?

That is my understanding now after a little research done on PFS. It is made to minimize the chance of compaction. I would still stick with the coarser grades just to be safe. Also, now that I know it is such a bright white, I don't want any of that stuff! Not unless it comes in other colors and considering it's use I don't see why it would. People say that it can be blinding.

I don't know where a myth like sand adding silicates to the water could originate from. Sand of any kind is totally insoluble in regular water. AFAIK the only place you're likely to get silicates in the water is from groundwater and the tap. Some areas have a higher concentration of silicates in the water than others.

 

[giggalz]

unfortunately i made the mistake of going to petsmart..to get a filter..(i actually posted this but no comments) and saw they had sand and i wanted the white white sand..its so fine..i'm worried..i'm afraid i'll regret and be even more upset for the 25 bucks a bag for 20 pound..oddly it only needed one bag..maybe a little of the second..i had one full bag and half of the second..before leveling and realizing i had plenty..

i've decided on cichlids..and based on the sand i got it claims its best for cichlids..

 

[mfdrookie516]

It is silica sand... so when you put the sand in your tank, you have silicates. Without a lab grade kit to test for silicates, it's impossible to know whether it does or not. That said, I have never had major issues with diatoms. No more than Joe Blow over there has with his gravel from petsmart. They're there, but they're not an issue for me.

 

[Amicus]

The adjunct used for sandblasting is called Black Beauty and they also use an industrial quartz. Not sure if their safe for aquariums though.

 

[Amicus]

I just got a 55g and want to use pfs. Is it ok to use with plastic plants?

 

[Shadowraven]

The adjunct used for sandblasting is called Black Beauty and they also use an industrial quartz. Not sure if their safe for aquariums though.

If it is quartz, then as long it isn't coated with anything it is safe.

Sand=silica=glass=quartz. It is all basically the same thing. Most sand is really just ground quartz.

I just got a 55g and want to use pfs. Is it ok to use with plastic plants?

That really shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Fishguy2727]

Glass is not the same as quartz sand.

Most cheapo sands do not have a coating of any type. The one I suggested does have a coating to prevent this exact problem.

There is someone on another forum that I frequent who had this exact thing happen. They tried PFS and the extra silicates from the sand created such a diatom problem that wouldn't go away she had to just pull it out. Obviously other factors are involved, but every tank has phosphate and nitrate. The silicates from the sand are what fueled the brown algae farm her tank turned into. When she shared this experience others chimed in with similar experiences.

 

[Shadowraven]

Glass is not the same as quartz sand.

Sorry to have to contradict you but quartz sand is the MAIN ingredient of glass with various other additives. Is it exactly the same, no. That's because the sand is refined and has additives in it to make the glass. But both are made of the same base molecule, SIO2.