Seachem's Stability & Water Changes...

[ArtesiaWells]

I am on my third day of Stability treatment in my recently re-established 60 gallon, attempting to kick-start the cycle process (I had success with this product in a 10 gallon I recently set up as well for fancy goldfish) and the water has gone from absolutely glass-clean, crystal-clear to murky and cloudy (the milky, whispy "new tank syndrome" look), which I understand is completely normal as the bacteria attempts to take hold...

Here's my question: Should I be doing water changes during this time if parameters report being off after testing, or are water changes not recommended during a cycle process...even if it's "forced" like with a Stability product? And, will the cloudy water ever clear up once the Stability treatments are complete...or is this totally dependent on how long it takes the tank to cycle? There is only one fish in there right now -- a small Black Moor goldfish who was saved from the bacterial infection that wiped out this tank previously. I am attempting to do a "fish in" cycle with her, but using the Stability...

 

[Mumma.of.two]

If the parameters call for a water change do one. You want to protect your moor.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

If the parameters call for a water change do one. You want to protect your moor.

As always, thank you Mumma...

So, if my API results come back as "off," it is okay to do the change while using Stability and the tank is cycling? I've just read SO many conflicting things about this...

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Yes. If it effects the stability, it effects it. Nothing you can do about it. Your number one priority is to keep the parameters in the safe zone to protect the health of your moor. If it were me I would stop the stability altogether. It would contain a different type of bacteria to the one you are trying to establish in your filter so it's use won't really help and could result in an unstable bio filter in the future. A tank can cycle without any additives.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Yes. If it effects the stability, it effects it. Nothing you can do about it. Your number one priority is to keep the parameters in the safe zone to protect the health of your moor. If it were me I would stop the stability altogether. It would contain a different type of bacteria to the one you are trying to establish in your filter so it's use won't really help and could result in an unstable bio filter in the future. A tank can cycle without any additives.

I'll definitely run a battery of API tests and get back with the results...

However, would you really stop using the Stability in mid-cycle like this? The bottle claims the product will safely and quickly build up the biological cycle process in the aquarium, and that as long as it's dosed for the full seven days, all aquatic species and fish can be added safely...

 

[jetajockey]

Don't put much faith in Stability. I've tested it a couple of times with completely fresh tanks and have had very mixed results. My final conclusion was that it does not contain the nitrifiers naturally found in aquaria. It's 'synergistic blend of falcultative anerobes' or whatever can still process nitrogenous waste, but I wouldn't depend on it. Just do water changes as needed for the sake of the fish.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

I'll definitely run a battery of API tests and get back with the results...

However, would you really stop using the Stability in mid-cycle like this? The bottle claims the product will safely and quickly build up the biological cycle process in the aquarium, and that as long as it's dosed for the full seven days, all aquatic species and fish can be added safely...

Honestly I don't think it will make a difference. What the bottle claims and what it actually does are two different things. That being said some say they have had success with its use while others say its snake oil. I can tell you that even the tanks that used it would have cycled anyway.

ETA: was hoping jets would see this thread since he's used it before

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Don't put much faith in Stability. I've tested it a couple of times with completely fresh tanks and have had very mixed results. My final conclusion was that it does not contain the nitrifiers naturally found in aquaria. It's 'synergistic blend of falcultative anerobes' or whatever can still process nitrogenous waste, but I wouldn't depend on it. Just do water changes as needed for the sake of the fish.

Thanks very much, jeta -- much appreciated!

Well, as long as I know it is safe to do water changes WHILE cycling (fish-in) AND using the Stability, I will begin testing and see if the tank needs it...

What are the dangers of stopping the Stability cold-turkey? Can I use it until at least the 7-day instructed period by Seachem? I suppose I can e-mail their support team about this, but I just wanted to check with you folks first...

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Honestly I don't think it will make a difference. What the bottle claims and what it actually does are two different things. That being said some say they have had success with its use while others say its snake oil. I can tell you that even the tanks that used it would have cycled anyway.

ETA: was hoping jets would see this thread since he's used it before

Thanks, Mumma...

Indeed, as I said to "jets," I suppose I could e-mail Seachem's customer service and ask them about this, but I wanted to run the questions by you guys first. I just don't want to stop the product cold-turkey in the middle of using it only to have something happen to the water or to the Moor goldfish; the bottle says to continue for at least 7 days...

I know the tank went RIDICULOUSLY cloudy once the Stability began, where on the first day of start-up it was transparantly CRYSTAL clear...

 

[RussellC]

Thanks very much, jeta -- much appreciated!

Well, as long as I know it is safe to do water changes WHILE cycling (fish-in) AND using the Stability, I will begin testing and see if the tank needs it...

What are the dangers of stopping the Stability cold-turkey? Can I use it until at least the 7-day instructed period by Seachem? I suppose I can e-mail their support team about this, but I just wanted to check with you folks first...

Based on my understanding of Stability:

Yes, water changes are safe to do fish-in while using Stability. Stopping Stability cold turkey will not pose any health threat to your fish.

Even if Stability does not contain the exact strains of aquarium bacteria we are trying to cultivate while cycling, they are bacteria, and removing them will not, itself, alter your water chemistry adversely in any way. The manufacturer recommends against it because removal of the bacteria (whether they're ultimately the type we want or not) will limit the product's effectiveness.

If you want to discontinue it's use, I don't see how limiting whatever effectiveness it may have would be an issue.

Of course asking customer service is a great approach, just be prepared for them to 'recommend' continued use of the product.

 

[jetajockey]

Thanks, Mumma...

Indeed, as I said to "jets," I suppose I could e-mail Seachem's customer service and ask them about this, but I wanted to run the questions by you guys first. I just don't want to stop the product cold-turkey in the middle of using it only to have something happen to the water or to the Moor goldfish; the bottle says to continue for at least 7 days...

I know the tank went RIDICULOUSLY cloudy once the Stability began, where on the first day of start-up it was transparantly CRYSTAL clear...

Well one thing about customer service from any of these companies is that they are highly biased towards their product.

Stopping the product is not likely to hurt anything, but continuing it probably won't either, so if I had it on hand I'd just use it. The one major drawback of using certain bottled bacteria is that if they are not the kind that establishes itself naturally in aquaria then there may be a possible lag time between the natural biofilter establishing itself and the bottled stuff eventually dying off.

Stability claims that their product 'works harder' and all that in the presence of nitrogenous waste, but test results of many have been inconclusive so it's not something I'd rely on.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Thank you, Russell -- here is an update with regard to the API freshwater test kit battery I just ran (for everyone to view and analyze as well):

Okay -- on my 10 gallon which has been running for about two weeks now (dosed with Stability for a week, and getting Prime with every water change, stocked with three smallish goldfish):

The API results were:
Ammonia: 0.50-1.0 (these were definitely on the high side probably due to the stocking of this tank)
NitrIte: 0.25-0.50
NitrAte: 0

Now, on the 60 gallon, the API results came out to:

Ammonia: Between 0 and 0.25
NitrIte: Approx. 0.25
NitrAte: 0

Some of these are so difficult to read for me for some reason because the color codes look like they could fall into many different areas; can someone help me analyze these and let me know if the 60 gallon in particular needs an immediate water change? I believe the 10 gallon needs one based on these numbers, yes? If so, should I do 50%?

Could the 10 gallon still be in the cycling process even though I used Stability for the week? I mean, it's only up and running for about two weeks...

Thank you all...

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Well one thing about customer service from any of these companies is that they are highly biased towards their product.

Stopping the product is not likely to hurt anything, but continuing it probably won't either, so if I had it on hand I'd just use it. The one major drawback of using certain bottled bacteria is that if they are not the kind that establishes itself naturally in aquaria then there may be a possible lag time between the natural biofilter establishing itself and the bottled stuff eventually dying off.

Stability claims that their product 'works harder' and all that in the presence of nitrogenous waste, but test results of many have been inconclusive so it's not something I'd rely on.

Thank you, jeta...

Should the clear water return after discontinuing use of Stability, or is this dependent on the cycle process?

 

[jetajockey]

The water should clear up on its own, cloudy water is usually the result of bacterial action in the water column, it resolves it self in time most often.

Re: water changes, what is your pH?

The 60 sounds fine, the 10 is high. Is there any way to move 2 of the goldies out? I wouldn't keep goldfish in the 10 for long term anyhow.

 

[Nimo]

I used stability to cycle my 60 gallon tank, what happened to me is the tank did a soft or mini cycle and ultimately about a week later started into a hard cycle which still took 8 weeks to get my tank fully cycled. The cloudy water is more than likely from the stability.
I used it as directed for the full 7 days. I don't think it does exactly what it is suppose to do..
I highly believe in Prime water conditioner that the same company makes but they got some work to do with the stability product.
For the sake of your fish please do your water changes you have worked so hard to save that fish don't give up on her now.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

The water should clear up on its own, cloudy water is usually the result of bacterial action in the water column, it resolves it self in time most often.

Re: water changes, what is your pH?

I didn't check pH because I figured it didn't really matter how hard or soft the water was at this point -- my goldies have always adapted to these swings anyway, from my experience. But if you think it's an important parameter right now, I will test it...

The 60 sounds fine, the 10 is high. Is there any way to move 2 of the goldies out? I wouldn't keep goldfish in the 10 for long term anyhow.

I simply have no place else for the goldies in the 10 to go right now -- we cannot afford another temporary 10 gallon setup with filtration and all that, and we don't really want to put any of them in the 60 until we figure out what is going on with the cycling and stabilization of the water...

Do you recommend a water change for the 10 gallon right now? If so, how much? And are you certain parameters look okay in the cycling 60?

 

[ArtesiaWells]

I used stability to cycle my 60 gallon tank, what happened to me is the tank did a soft or mini cycle and ultimately about a week later started into a hard cycle which still took 8 weeks to get my tank fully cycled. The cloudy water is more than likely from the stability.
I used it as directed for the full 7 days. I don't think it does exactly what it is suppose to do..

Thanks Nimo...

So, I should continue using the Stability for the 7 days and then stop? Do you agree that it's okay to do water changes during this period?

I highly believe in Prime water conditioner that the same company makes but they got some work to do with the stability product.
For the sake of your fish please do your water changes you have worked so hard to save that fish don't give up on her now.

I too believe in Prime; great product. Thank you so much for your thoughts regarding my Black Moor...

 

[Nimo]

Yes continue your water changes on the 60 but if you want to continue the stability add its daily dose after your water change.
As far as the 10 I would do at least a 30% change probly wouldn't hutt to do a 50% water change considering the stock that is in it.

 

[ArtesiaWells]

Yes continue your water changes on the 60 but if you want to continue the stability add its daily dose after your water change.
As far as the 10 I would do at least a 30% change probly wouldn't hutt to do a 50% water change considering the stock that is in it.

Oh, I actually never did a water change on the 60 yet -- I was afraid because I just began cycling and using Stability...what I'm asking is, I suppose, based on the test results I just posted, should the 60 get a water change, or does all look okay to you for the moment?

As for the 10 gallon -- do a 50% right now, you think?

 

[Nimo]

With water in the 60 have you put any Prime in there today? If not you could put prime in the detoxify the ammonia and nitrite that is there now instead of doing water change now, but would recommend doing a water change tomorrow and add more prime with the water change.
The 10 yes I would do a 50% change now with those reading