Sick Cardinal Tetra

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LKH

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Dec 10, 2005
Messages
39
Location
Colorado
1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the best of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.).

Cardinal Tetra - tail and dorsal fins ragged, spine out of alignment. Swims OK.

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.

Tank of origin, Ammonia/nitrites 0, nitrates about 10, temp 78, PH 7.2.

Current tank, 5 gallon quarantine, just set up with filter media from original tank. Same parameters, but temp is up to 80.

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up?

Original tank is 30 gallon, set up in July.

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known.

2 penguin biowheels, rated for 20 gallons, one on each end.

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes?

11 cardinal tetras (including the sick one) 10 amano shrimp, 5 otos, 3 cories, 1 nerite snail, a LOT of pest snails, and 2 golden honey gouramis. All the others look healthy, though I haven't seen all 10 amanos since I put them in (counted 8 a few days ago).

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time?

Water changes are done weekly, about 20%, using gravel vac but sparingly (this is a densely planted tank).

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them?

Got the fish in August, 2 weeks quarantine (my pet shop also quarantines and medicates before display). Lost 1 shortly after quarantine.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.?

No. But have had the lights shut off for a few days to deal with some algae, and have cut back on feeding.

9A~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently?

See above. I rotate between Tetramin flakes, BioBlend pellets, and add 1 Hikari sinking pellet for the cories a few times a week. I was feedling daily, but reduced to every other day after algae outbreak. Also some zucchini for the otos - was doing it weekly, but with the algae, I don't think they need it as much.

I've put the tetra in quarantine, and added melafix and pimafix, as I didn't know what the problem was for sure and figured this would at least help with the fins.

L
 
Sounds like a case of Fish Tuberculosis. The curved spine is a key indicator of it. Unfortanetly, spinal deformation usually occurs in some of the more advanced cases of the infection. Provide a well balanced diet for the cardinal (which you are) and make sure you keep up on water changes.

In addition, a strong broad spectrum antibiotic is needed if you wish to treat the fish. I believe the most reccomended antibiotics for TB are Streptomycin and Kanamycin Sulfate, but really any broad spec should do. I would begin treatment as soon as possible. If the deformity continues to get worse, you may have to consider euthanizing.

Best of luck.
 
I was thinking about that, but I didn't see any ulcers. I honestly thought the little guy was done for when I first moved him to isolation, but he's actually perking up a bit. His spine isn't badly kinked, just slightly misaligned. I will try to get a photo tomorrow.

What about the other fish? Should I treat the entire 30 gallon?

And I know that nasty stuff can pass to humans. Unfortunately, I have a scraped knuckle, and I've had my hands in the tank quite a bit doing maintenance and stuff. What should I watch for?

L
 
I was thinking about that, but I didn't see any ulcers

There are 2 types of TB infection in fish. External and internal. I believe you have the internal/systemic infection, when dealing with the spinal deformation.
What about the other fish? Should I treat the entire 30 gallon?

To the best of my knowledge, TB isn't very contagious. The treatment (antibiotics) can also do harm to your biological filter. I would treat the infected fish only.
And I know that nasty stuff can pass to humans. Unfortunately, I have a scraped knuckle, and I've had my hands in the tank quite a bit doing maintenance and stuff. What should I watch for?

Very rare. The species of Mycobacterium that infects fish is different from that which infects humans. The chance is quite minimal, but is still there. I would wash out the cut, and perhaps wear a rubber glove or waterproof band-aid when in the tank. Watch for red spots on your skin near the cut.
 
Thanks! I think I have several different antibiotics. Kanacyn, Tetracycline.... Will start treatment right away.

I'm glad the other fish are likely healthy. I looked them all over very carefully and see no sign of problems with any of the others. Good colors, fins look fine, nobody looks misaligned. A few of the females have odd belly bulges, but I'm thinking that's eggs.

I'll watch my hands. Hopefully there won't be a problem. Wouldn't you just know I scraped my knuckles on a wall while shoveling snow just before all this started coming down?

L
 
i dont mean to hijack the thread but im going through the same thing...i just realised that one neon has a curved spine...they are in the QT tank already so im gonna follow your suggestion and get the antibiotic...but i just wanted to post here because LKH posted about some females having odd belly bulges...i have one platy and one harlequin rasbora in the main tank looking really swollen...tried the peas...didnt work...so since we both have the same problem i wos wondering if this has anything to do with TB??? will maracyn II work for TB??? ok...done with the hijacking... :oops:
 
i have one platy and one harlequin rasbora in the main tank looking really swollen...tried the peas...didnt work...so since we both have the same problem i wos wondering if this has anything to do with TB??? will maracyn II work for TB??? ok...done with the hijacking...

Fortanelty, no. TB will show a general wasting away of the fish, rather than a bulging stomach. The curved spine however is an issue to watch out for.
Maracyn II may work, but I don't know if it is strong enough to kill the TB. Erythromycin is also becoming well know (from what I've seen and read) of being resistant to many bacterial strains, meaning that it won't have any effect on them at all. Best to find the stronger meds listed above, if possible.

HTH
 
By the way, a couple of sites, including the aquarium pharmaceuticals site, say that Melafix and Pimafix are useful in treating TB. I was surprised as I had always thought they had only mild antibiotic properties. But given tetras can be fairly delicate, if those two medications will do, I'm inclined to use them in lieu of other meds. What do you think?

Thus far, that's what I've been using with Gimp (the sick tetra). He is not happy about being isolated - tries to school with his reflection, and if you look really close, his mouth is working, almost like he's mouthing words. But he still is very active and seems to be perking up. He was kind of hiding and moving slow in the community tank, so I think he may be improving.

L
 
By the way, a couple of sites, including the aquarium pharmaceuticals site, say that Melafix and Pimafix are useful in treating TB. I was surprised as I had always thought they had only mild antibiotic properties. But given tetras can be fairly delicate, if those two medications will do, I'm inclined to use them in lieu of other meds. What do you think?

Melafix actually doesn't have antibiotic properties. It's made from a species of tea tree leaf. It's advertised as all natural, won't hurt your biological filter, and all that good stuff. My guess is that the people from AP are meaning that you can treat external signs of TB (which can give nasty ulcers and skin abrasions). An internal TB infection is hard to treat, because it attacks on the inside.

I hope your fish is pulling through. Keep up on observation of him. Is the spine still looking deformed?
 
So far so good. The spine is still curved, but the fins are growing back nicely, the fish is very active and eating. Not happy at all about being alone, but that's to be expected.

By the way, I stumbled onto a study on the antibacterial properties of tea tree oil, and it turns out it actually has been tested and proved effective against an impressive number of bacteria, fungi, and viruses. http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/f-w98/teatrees.html

That's one thing about this hobby - I learn something new everyday! 8)

L
 
By the way, shouldn't he be skinny if it's TB? He's really not. I'm wondering if there is something else that might account for this.

His fins are almost grown back now, but I'm not putting him back in the main tank until I know what's what with him...

L
 
Update on the tetra. He's still swimming around, looks like he feels OK, but it seems like he's kind of turning a darker color, and might have a bit of a hump on his back. But he's FAT, not wasted.

Does it still sound like TB? Anything else?

L
 
Eek. To be honest, I really don't know LKH.

To answer your question, yes, with TB there is generally a wasting away. I don't know what else out there, besides TB, would give a spinal deformation with the fat belly. IMHO, it could still be TB, but really with internal infections it's just too hard to tell. It could possibly just be suffering from one of those fishy mysteries. :|
 
Peculiar....

Well, much as I hate keeping him away from his pals, I don't think he's going back in the main tank until I'm sure he's fine. It is possible that I just never noticed his "curvature" before, and it's something he came with. But I've looked them all over pretty closely, and really didn't ever see it before.

L
 
Hmm. What about a vitamin C deficiency? What do you feed the fish and how often? Do you feed live of frozen foods at all, or just flakes?

It seems odd, but after a little more research on the subject, a lack of vitamin C can cause spinal defomities and skeletal issues (perhaps like a hump in the back) and skin color changes, along with a sluggish or hiding fish.

Try feeding him some peas and spinach, and see if things improve at all.
 
Sorry I didn't get back right away. I've been messing around with car trouble - transmission failure. :x

I feed a variety. Tetramin flakes, Bioblend pellets, and the tetras usually nosh a little on the sinking wafers I give the cory cats. Also, before my tank started getting lots of algae, I was supplementing for the otos with zucchini once a week, and I noticed the tetras carrying the seeds around so I think they at least nibbled on that.

Do you think that there's a food that's richer in vitamins? I can drop some broccoli shavings in the tank (I keep that around for my parakeets, and the little knobby heads would probably look like the pellets I already feed).

Otherwise, he seems to be doing pretty well. His color looks good now. I wonder, could he have always had this deformity, and I just noticed it when the other fish started picking on his fins?

How much longer do you think I should keep him in isolation?

Thanks again!

L
 
Hard to say. Is possible that it always had the deformity and you just never noticed it. After you treated with the medications, and things have seemed to improve as much as they will, I'd say you can put him back in the tank. As long as he is active and can keep up with everyone else.

As for the veggies, I'd imagine any vegetable matter would be good for them. I was taking a long shot with the Vitamin C deficiency. It would take prolonged exposure to have any effect. You could try to just put some freezedried food in the tank, and I'm sure the fish would love you for it. :)

Wish I could help more, but I'm at the end of my brain train.
 
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