Smudged Goldfish

[lyquidphyre]

My comman goldfish has black "smudges" on it. I bought two and one has a black strip going down its back, and the other one had a black spot on its head.. when i got them home the one with the spot on its head no longer had a spot. I figured the guy grabbed the wrong one.. but now, he has all sorts of black spots.

Im new to stuff.. so what could this possible be? I can post a picture if needed

 

[Capt.Gorilla]

I picture would be nice to identify the problem if it even is a problem.
Goldfish do naturally change color and this may just be the beginning, I had 2 goldies change from orange to black to silver over the course of 5 years.

Or maybe you picked up shubakins by accident, they have really spotty skin.

 

[lyquidphyre]

I posted pix =o)

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

Whats the ammonia level in your tank??

Goldfish are exceedingly hardy, and some can live in ammonia levels so high, it literally burns them, and leaves black "smudge" like marks (Esp. on the tips of the fins)

I'd check your levels ASAP.

 

[lyquidphyre]

I did a water change and put in things to help the ammonia and everything.

I purcahsed them with the black on their fins and their splotches keep coming and going so I don't know.

Maybe they will get better with the new water and what not

 

[Capt.Gorilla]

What did you put in to help the ammonia level?
And also did you test your ammonia level if so what was it?

 

[lyquidphyre]

Its at .25 ("safe" so says the test) I tested it with Ammonia Quick Dip strips. I put in something called C-100

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

Usually we aim for an ammonia level of zero (even if the test kits say otherwise )

I'm not familiar with C-100, but usually the best way to handle ammonia is to do water changes, and foster a strong biological filter. There are lots of additives that claim to remove toxic ammonia from the water...but the problem with them is continued use of them can weaken the bacterial colonies that oxidize ammonia (since they remove their "food" source), and additionally, they can sometimes much up your pH if you have soft-ish water. In fact, a lot of times if people have been using them, then they stop, they discover that they have to re-cycle their tank!

Keep an eye on your ammonia levels. If you can get them down to zero consistently, you may find that your fish's smudges clear up within a few weeks. If they don't, then we'll chalk it up to genetics

good luck!

 

[lyquidphyre]

This is what is so weird-

I bought Nancy because she had a little black dot on her head and Sid because he had a black strip going down his back. Well I got home and noticed her black dot was gone. Then the next day- her black dot was back.

I have stuff to boost up my pH levels n stuff...

After I changed the water and added all that stuff my fish seem happier and a lot livlier.

Oh, the C-100 stuff that I got says this-
Aquarium water purifier
Removes Ammonia (fish Waste)
Prevents New Tank Syndrome
For Goldfish Bowls and Aquariums

 

[jsoong]

Your goldies looks to be quite small. Baby goldies are supposed to be black/brown in colour, and they lose that over first few months, during which time they can have spots of black with gold. So it is quite possible that your goldies were in the middle of changing from their baby to adult colour.

I bought a baby fantail that did the same thing. I got it less than 1" long, and had nice black spots. These disappeared over next few weeks, now he is all gold. I read afterwards that there is no point selecting baby goldies for colour, because that will change as they grow.

As a side note, I agree with Sweets, generally best to treat water only with dechlorinator & nothing else. Mucking with pH & such just gives unstable tank. I am a firm believer in plenty of water changes to give optimum condition for fish.

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

I have no idea what "new tank syndrome" is, other than the ammonia and nitrite spikes you'd see with a cycling tank. Is your tank cycled? What are your pH levels at now that you are wanting to change them? Sorry to ask so many questions... but getting things figured out now can prevent problems later

I had a lovely common goldie years and years ago that was bought as a tri-color, gold, black + silver. Of course once it matured, it lost the color variation and was just plain 'ol orange. LOL

 

[lyquidphyre]

My pH level is between 6.8 and 7.2.

When i first set up my tank and took it to my lfs he said i had a low pH and gave me some powder to help that before I put in my fish. (I purcahsed bottled drinking water and filled up my tank). So last night when I added 5 more gallons of bottled drinking water I added a little of the powder to help with pH because I can never get it at 7.

Nancy might be a younger fish and is still changing her colors or something. They seem to be doing really well- they are happy fish.

Im not sure if my tank is cycled- I read the whole thing about cycling tanks- but I was sleepy so Im not sure I grasped the whole concept.

 

[Capt.Gorilla]

Gold fish can easily live in a ph range of 6.5 to 7.5 so as long as it doesn't fluctuate a lot or far out of that range he'll be fine.

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

phyre - any reason you're using bottled water? It'd probably be a lot easier on you (and your wallet!) if you use tap water.

As Gorilla said, goldies (and a lot of other fish for that matter) can live happily in a wide range of pHs.

Much easier for everyone involved to use tap water...it tends to be pretty darn consistent. and as long as you use a dechlorinator, safe for fish.

Pet Stores can be tricky places...they are usually out for the best interest of their critters....but they're also selling all those fabulous ph fixers, ammonia reducers, and the like...they wouldn't make much money on those products if they told you they weren't necessary

Do you have any specific questions on cycling that I could answer for you? Are you seeing nitrates in your tank yet (I'm guessing not if you still have ammonia in there?)

As always, we're here to help!

 

[lyquidphyre]

At Wal-mart bottled drinking water is 59 cents a gallon, so not knowing any better I figured why not. The guy at the lfs said it would take about 2 weeks w/ dechlorinator to get Denton tap water ready (Denton tap is god awful) so I opted to get bottled to help speed up the process (instead of waiting two weeks). Then, once I did that and let my water run- he said the pH was low and to buy powder to fix that before I put any fish in my tank.

I understand that fish produce ammonia and from there nitrite turns into nitrate and I just am lost. Can you give me a brief summary of what to expect and what I will see, because I have no clue if my tank has cycled yet.

 

[Allivymar]

*The nitrogen cycle: The Reader's Digest Version*

In the air, on surfaces and all around are certain bacteria called nitrifiers. They're always looking for food; specifically nitrogenous waste. One way mother nature supplies that food is the waste produced by fish. Ammonia, a nitrogenous waste, in their respiration as well as their waste products. Those bacteria start colonising a fish tank when there is enough ammonia to eat. They eat the ammonia, and convert it to nitrite. Another bacteria shows up, eats the nitrites and convert it to nitrates.

Because the bacteria aren't in the tank initially (at least, not without the help of mature filter squeezings, gravel from a mature tank, Bio-Spira, etc), it takes em a while to build up decent size colonies. So initially the waste the fish produce isn't all converted cause there isn't enough bacteria to eat it. It winds up sitting in the tank poisoning your fish. Thats why we encourage folks to test for ammonia; its deadly and needs to be diluted (water changes). Less then .5 ppm is ok IMHO.

Once theres enough ammonia eating bacteria, nitrites start showing up in the tests. Again, we encourage testing cause nitrites are also deadly and need to be diluted. Less then .5 ppm is ok (again) IMHO.

Then once theres enough nitrites, the bacteria that eat them show up. They don't colonise the tank as quickly as the ammonia eating ones, so that stage may take a while longer then the initial ammonia reduction. Nitrates aren't a problem at low levels (40ppm or less) so the rush to water change isn't as pressing.

Basically, you need to test the waters to ensure you are not endangering your fish. And by doing those tests, you can see how the bacteria are doing colonising your tank. Once ammonia and nitrites no longer register on the tests, but only nitrates do, you know your tank now has a large enough colony of bacteria to deal with the nitrogenous wastes being produced in the tank.

One last thing. Because anything you add into the tank stays there (albeit in a different form *grin* like food becomes poo), you need to continue doing water changes even after the there's enough bacteria. The result of that cycle of ammonia to nitrite to nitrates ARE those levels of nitrates, as nothing eats it. Hence removing it by regular water changes.

 

[jsoong]

phyre, since you are using bottled water (which is prob. RO water), it is likely to have low (or zero) KH & GH. That is, the water will have low buffering capacity. In that case, it is wise to add buffers to the water. The powder you are using, if it is actually a buffer, then I'll say use it (I take back my "not adding anything to the water" earlier). Note that the goal of adding buffer is NOT to alter the pH, but to maintain a stable pH. Fishies do much better in a stable pH, rather than constantly changing pH (as when one tries to get the perfect pH with chemical additives).

To be sure if you need to add buffer to the bottled water, best is to check the KH of the water itself.

BTW, I am curious, what is in your tap water that is so awful for fish, yet is fixed by ageing for 2 weeks?

 

[sweetsuvvyb]

Probably nothing

Most water quality issues that would actually warrant using bottled or RO water would not be rectified by letting the water sit (in fact, it might actually emphasize them).

I think a great deal of the time, at retail stores (like walmart or petsmart), the person in the fishy department might not always be someone who knows a lot about keeping them. So they might know that you need to leave water sitting out to dissolve chlorine, and then they might hear someone talking about adding a dechlorinator....so they might then think the proper advice is to let your water sit with a dechlorinator...which is kind of silly. When I bought my fish, I bought a tiny little tank, and the clerk told me I had to run the tank completely *empty* for 2 weeks before I could add the fish, to let it cycle. Well, obviously he knew that I needed to cycle the tank....but his understanding was a little iffy! Ok, now I'm getting off on a great big tangent.

Phyre - take a vial of your tap water, and use your quick dip strips to test the pH and nitrate levels in it. If the pH is between oh lets say 6.5 and 7.8, and you have low to no nitrates in there, your fish would probably do just fine (if you use a dechlor/water conditioner that removes chlorine, breaks the chlor-amine bond, and removes heavy metals).

Of course if you want to continue using bottled water, it's up to you. I tend to always encourage people to use their tap water, since the people at the water treatment plants have already played chemist for you!

 

[Fruitbat]

liquidphyre...

I'm just a little bit South of you in the Dallas area and I can tell you that Denton's water isn't particularly bad for fish. Granted it is a bit alkaline (just like ours here in Dallas) but unless you're keeping fish that MUST have water on the acidic side then Denton water is just fine. The guy at the lfs you're using either doesn't know what he's talking about or is trying to sell you some pH adjusting chemicals.

I've been keeping tropical fish in the Dallas area on and off for well over 30 years and I've never had problems with the water quality. On the occasions that I've had fish that preferred or required more acidic water, I've used peat in my filter and/or substrate to bring the pH to the required levels.

 

[lyquidphyre]

The guy at my lfs also said that they sell their water (i can't remember if he said old or clean or what) and people will buy those big buckets from Home Depot and fill up their tanks with it and when I mentioned that elsewhere in the forum people said that was a bad idea as well.

I'll try my tap water next time and test it before hand and see how it goes.

Fruitbat- I don't know if you would know of the lfs I am talking about but have you heard of Fish n Chirps off W. University? That is where I went where they told me all that water stuff.

Also- Allivymar thanx for that nice summary on cycling I understand it now.

Thanx for all your help guys! The black strip down Sids back is going away and Nancys splotches are still there so it could be just them changing colors like mentioned before.