Species of clown

[bromion]

My Reef Fishes book doesn't seem to have clowns. Can someone tell me the species these clowns are? The store said black & white True Percula, tank bred.

 

[steve-s]

Black clowns are often called percula's for whatever reason ( more money?) but they are Amphiprion ocellaris.

Cheers
Steve

 

[steve r]

i did not know that. so does tha mean if i want to add a second ( much smaller ) clown as a tank mate for my regular orange ocellaris i can add a black one?

steve r

 

[bromion]

The mouth on one of them is constantly going, but the other one keeps it closed. What's up with that?

 

[revhtree]

I have 2 Black and whites and 2 Orange in my reef. They all get along except the two black will pick on the little orange if he gets in there territory. The Big Black and Big Orange seem to be mating up though... :?

On a side note, when I first added the 2 BW one of them picked on the little orange constantly. I caught the BW and took him back to the lfs and traded him for another. Added it and everything was fine. One day later the new BW was picking on the little orange just the same as the one before.....Now most is good.

 

[steve-s]

i did not know that. so does tha mean if i want to add a second ( much smaller ) clown as a tank mate for my regular orange ocellaris i can add a black one?

As Rev points out, yes you can. Ocellaris is ocellaris, the color does not matter. You can also mix ocellaris with percula.

The mouth on one of them is constantly going, but the other one keeps it closed. What's up with that?

Could be a little stressed, especially if they are exibiting any kind of bonding behavior.

How old is the set up, are your water quality numbers and what other tank mates/tank size?

Cheers
Steve

 

[bromion]

The mouth on one of them is constantly going, but the other one keeps it closed. What's up with that?

Could be a little stressed, especially if they are exibiting any kind of bonding behavior.

How old is the set up, are your water quality numbers and what other tank mates/tank size?

Cheers
Steve

The mouth-mover is not eating. This is the second day of that. I've fed them flakes, frozen mysis, and frozen shrimp+scallop+nori mix I made; it seems to be refusing it all. The other one is eating and swimming around normally. They are the first fish in the tank, and none of the inverts interact with them.

58 gal reef, cycled and stable. These are the first fish.
Temp varies from about 79-81 over the course of 24 hr
Salinity 1.023
pH 8.1
KH 300ppm
NH3 0 mg/L
NO2 0 mg/L
NO3 12.5 mg/L
Ca 420 mg/L
PO4 <0.25 (hard to tell from the color chart)
These parameters are quite stable over time.

 

[steve-s]

Alkalinity is rather high, I would get that verified and if true, reduce it to 150-180 ppm via water changes. That is depending on the reading you get from a newly mixed batch of salt.

As far as not eating, this can be common in new animals. Either stressed or possibley the symptom of a parasite (please post anything relevent if present). Try a few water changes (in part for the alk) to see if that helps any. Believe it or not, sometimes that's all that needed even though water conditions seem fine. I would also suggest using a liquid marine vitamin additive to the foods that specifically contains a decent level of vitamin B12 (Zoe/Vita chem) and where possible use Selcon when you make your foods. Garlic would also be a decent once in a while additions as it does have antiparasitic properties and a good all 'round antioxidant.

Might not seem relavent but what lights do you have on the tank and what if any photosynthetic animals are there?

Cheers
Steve

 

[bromion]

Thanks for the reply. I did a 3 gallon water change yesterday and plan to do another today. I will check the Alk with a more sensitive test as well.

Visually, the fish looks perfect. No spots on the skin. It displays odd behavior, however, like the rapid mouth movement and lethargy (compared to the other identical clown).

Light: I have 400W MH. I plan to leave it off today and just expose ambient light. Inverts: 1 fire shrimp, number of hermits, emerald crab, 1 Linkia, a number of Xenia, three small mushrooms. Nothing in the tank seems to be bothering the fish, or vice versa.

Thanks for the advice!
Jason

 

[steve-s]

Light: I have 400W MH. I plan to leave it off today and just expose ambient light. Inverts: 1 fire shrimp, number of hermits, emerald crab, 1 Linkia, a number of Xenia, three small mushrooms. Nothing in the tank seems to be bothering the fish, or vice versa.

Turning off the light or simpley running with actinics only if you have that option will help. Fish can become very stressed when going from a dimly/low lit environment to one that is intensley lit such as yours. Light shock if you will. Give it a few days to see if it adjusts and then acclimate them to the new intensity.

As far as the more than normal (?) mouth movement, it can be a symptom of stress or something amiss with the water, nothing even. I would suggest a few water changes over the next week, not just once a week. Keep watch and post back any relavent info you may encounter as well as an updated alk reading. If the clown keeps it's mouth open continuosly, post back promptly.

Cheers
Steve

 

[bromion]

I checked the alk again with a different test (Tetra droplet test). This one read 8.5 dKH, which is about 150ppm. The other test (Jungle Strip dip test) gave me between 180-300 (resolution is poor at the top end of the results). Most likely the strip test was off, so I will assume it was around 9-10 dKH before my water changes, since typically it was around those levels in the past.

As for the fish, it seems to be doing better. It is swimming around and ate a little bit of mysis shrimp today. Hopefully it will make a full recovery. Thanks for the help!

 

[steve-s]

All 'round sounds much better. Still keep a carefull watch on the clown to be sure it's not just a "remission". Fingers crossed 8)

Cheers
Steve

 

[bromion]

The clownfish is again not eating. I have also been observing it closely and noticed a few differences between it and its healthy partner. They are:
1) Not eating or reacting to food.
2) Not moving around as much.
3) Mouth open/close continually. The gills swell open with the mouth.
4) Gill area appears to stick out -- if the healthy clownfish has an ovular face, the other has more of a rounded-triangle face, as the gill area is bulging out somewhat.
Otherwise, they are visually near-identical.

Thoughts?

 

[steve-s]

Are you sure these fish where tank bred? Not kept with other clowns in a "general pop" of tanks at the LFS?

There is a concern here for brooklynella. Please read here...
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/brooklynella.html

Any other symptoms no matter how minor please post them.

Cheers
Steve

 

[bromion]

They were alone in the LFS tank. The LFS told me they were tank bred and had been in the store in their tank for 3 weeks. The tank was also isolated from the other store tanks (they maintain independent tanks).

The fish does not stay near the top of the tank, as the article suggested. In fact, it often hangs out close to the bottom. I don't see anything else to report.

 

[steve-s]

The tank was also isolated from the other store tanks (they maintain independent tanks).

I don't mean to cast doubt on an LFS I know nothing about but this seems highly unlikely. It is far to costly to maintain seperate tanks complete with seperate fitration systems. More commonly the tanks may be seperated but the fitration system is shared. An isolated group of fish would normally indicate they where undergoing or just completed a treatment.

The fish does not stay near the top of the tank, as the article suggested. In fact, it often hangs out close to the bottom. I don't see anything else to report.

This would be a minor symptom of Brooklynella. The major ones being lethargy, color loss, loss of appetite, excess mucus, stringly slime and/or red lesions.

Does the clown looked "pinched" behind the gill area, ie large head tapering to a smaller thinner body profile?

Cheers
Steve

 

[bromion]

This would be a minor symptom of Brooklynella. The major ones being lethargy, color loss, loss of appetite, excess mucus, stringly slime and/or red lesions.

Lethargy: yes
color loss: no
loss of appetite: yes
excess mucus: no
slime/lesions: no

Does the clown looked "pinched" behind the gill area, ie large head tapering to a smaller thinner body profile?

Not really. But the gills are definitely open (I can see the gill openings when it turns its back), unlike the other clownfish. I'd say the gill covers are pushed open, rather than the body tapering behind the gills.

Do you suggest any particular treatment at this point?

 

[steve-s]

Do you suggest any particular treatment at this point?

Do you have a cycled QT?

My concern here is the abnormal gilling. Not sure I'm clear on it though, is the gill cover remaining open or just opening more than normal. Either way, this could be the sign of a parasite. I am thinking a prophylactic formalin treatment considering the species. I would treat both clowns though to be safe.

How are the eyes, clear or cloudy?

Cheers
Steve

 

[bromion]

The gill covers remain open, but flare in sync with the mouth movement, it seems. Eyes look clear.

I don't have a cycled QT, but I set up a temporary QT with water from the tank and an airstone. The sick fish is in there now (has been since last night).

 

[steve-s]

When you look into the gill area (if you can see much detail), does it seem bloody red (as apposed to pinkish red), swollen or smooth/uniform and is there any evidence of stringy white material?

Any chance of a pic now that it's in a QT?
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/quarantinetanks.html


Cheers
Steve