Stocking and cycling

[Paradisio]

I've been researching, and I have a few questions to start with.

1. If pure ammonia is not available, and I decide to just "pollute" the tank using the food method, how much should I add? Is there a specific kind of food that works well for generating the ammonia levels I need?

2. Why do you you clean the water when fishless cycling? Wouldn't removing the water remove some of the bacterias food and thus slowdown the process?

3. What kind of test kits are reccomended?

4. I know, even with the above, if I do fish cycling, what fish should I get? My family heckles me a lot, and I can only imagine what they will be saying to me after 6 weeks of having no fish and a tank just full of water. They would probably make me get rid of it.

Ok, now I know I'm not there yet; but I thought I might plan ahead. What fish should I get?
29 gallon (30x12 footprint)
Emperor sized for 30 gallon
Substrate - Still iffy on, probably black stone. I am planning on adding live plants, which I am still researching on, so substrate probably will change.
I am unsure on fish, I want something active and "playful." I spent a lot of time in fish stores the last few days and I noticed several species chasing each other playfully. This was probably mating, but I kinda like to see the fish swimming about quickly and hiding. I don't want anything aggressive for now.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Welcome to AA Paradisio!!

1. I'm not exactly sure on the fish food method, but you could use a decomposing raw shrimp.

2. The only reason to change the water during a fishless cycle is if the levels get too high. If the level gets too high, it can stall the cycle. Removing the water does not remove bacteria. The bacteria colonizes in the filter and tank decor.

3. I use the Aquarium Pharm. Freshwater Master Test Kit. It's the best IMO.

4. For fish cycling, I really can't comment since I highly believe in the fishless route.

Check several sites and let us know what kind of fish interest you. Pick a few fish and we can build on that.

 

[sir_dudeguy]

well, for fish cycling, i dont recommend it, but when i started out, i did do it. Not because i just went against what everyone, but because i didnt even know about fishless.

But if you were to do it, swordtails, platties (i think), and maybe mollies and guppies would work. When i did mine, i had a 40 gallon with 6 swordtails, and i think i had a couple platties, cant remember...

now tho, i would only do fishless cycling, as its cheaper for one, and a lot better on the fish. Some fish stores will ask if they are for cycling your tank when you buy these fish....You'll say yes they are...they say, ok when you're cycle is done, you can bring them back in for store credit.
This is exactly what they told me...half of them died tho, so that was 10 or 15 bucks down the drain right there (ya i should have just bought the feeder swordtails and platties, but i bought some fancy ones that were like, 2 bucks each).

So you always run the risk of them dying when you do a fishless. I recommend you do the shrimp thing... just go to walmart, pick up a bag of shrimp and throw a couple in there, you might only need one tho, so you could just make a meal out of the others lol (couldnt do that if you buy fish now could you? haha)

hope this helps
mike

 

[Thebluyak]

also if you are doing a planted tank get agood substrate like eco-complete, that will help the root feeders a ton. Also look into different lighting because the stock lighting wont do. Make sure you take out the carbon in your filter because it removes some of the nutrients and trace elements in the water the plants need. I did fish cycle to and i used 5 lemon tetras, but i changed like 40% of the water everyday and my levels never got to high. I also had plants in there from day one. I also had 5 bloodfin tetras in with the lemons. I never lost a fish to the cycle but one did get stuck on my intake on my filter and another jumped out.

 

[joannde]

Re Cycling with fish - there is an EXCELLENT article somewhere in this forum on "Low BioLoad Cycling" by TomK2. He did an experimental cycle with few fish over the same 40 days as a fishless cycle and his ammonia and nitrites never got to a level that would have stressed the fish. If you want to cycle WITH fish I would highly recommend reading the article.
Perhaps Tom can provide the link - I did a search and can't find it but I know I just read it a few days ago.

 

[Paradisio]

Thanks I'll look into that article.

If I do add the plants first, that should increase the survivability of the fish, correct?

I have a good bulb for my lighting already; it actually might be too good (IE too many WPG.)

 

[TomK2]

Well, this essay on using fish to cycle humanely is not part of AA, but rather is on my personal website at:

http://home.comcast.net/~tomstank/tomstank_files/page0017.htm

It is rather wordy, but essentially states that if you start with very, very few fish, and feed sparingly, and are very, very patient, you bacteria will grow with levels of toxins that are below the lower limit of detection on your kit. My model used a combination of zebra danios and platies, 6 of each added over a two week period in a 55 gal tank, then no more until 42 days later when nitrates were seen to rise. The penalty for adding too many fish to fast, or feeding to much, is a rise in ammonia or nitrite that will require a few weeks of daily water changes to keep toxins low enough to not harm your fish. Trust me, it is less work to stock low and go slow, even if it seems harder to restrain yourself.

I use an AP master test kit, about $15 online.

 

[joannde]

Here's the link to that article I mentioned ... recommendation is 1 inch or less of fish per 5 gallons

http://home.comcast.net/~tomstank/tomstank_files/page0017.htm

JoAnn

 

[joannde]

Tom - just wanted to say thanks for posting the link - I think the low bioload method is BRILLIANT for those "less than patient folks" like me Even two platies are enough to keep me happy- they're actually eating out of my hand after less than a week and its so interesting to realize how a fish of 1 inch in length can recognize their human and feel comfortable enough after such a short time to get so close. Isn't mother nature (or God, whichever you prefer to believe) AMAZING !?

 

[Paradisio]

(****, I wrote a long post and accidently hit a link and lost it.)

How much should I be paying for the echo complete?

Should I upgrade to a 55 gallon? I can get one for around 50 bucks this weekend.

As far as the fish go; I looked around. Some fish that I liked:
-Cory Cats (panda)
-Pleco

Those are the only 2 I can remember, I would ideally like to get a couple of larger fish and a mix of smaller fish. If someone gives me advise on fish selection please try to post some possibilities for the 55 as well.

EDIT: I decided to stick with my 29 gallon, can anyone shoot me some reccomendations?

 

[Paradisio]

Is it normal not to be able to find rams in LFS'?

 

[sith j]

i cant find rams in my area either

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Rams can be tough to find. Keep looking and ask around.